Car Talk - Non S2000 General Motoring and Non S2000 Car Talk

Vehicle Body Repairs

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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 03:42 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Polemicist
I am clearly more cynical than you... I cannot believe the insurance industry is run on an altruistic basis to provide the customer with the best service or best value.

I don't doubt having a fleet of insurance engineers will be expensive, but in the case of the repair to the Old Dear's car, how much unnecessary expense was incurred by the replacement - or alleged replacement - of unnecessary parts? Extrapolate this over the whole sector and I imagine the sums are massive.

By ditching the engineers and replacing this overhead with a variable-cost, with which there is little or no control of - desired or otherwise - and that is ultimately passed-on to those paying the insurance premium is the reason. Then throw-in the average cost model and it's all very easy for the insurers to administer, whilst creating a situation which 'encourages' corner-cutting and bad practice.

It's all about (very) short-term competitive advantage for the insurers, not value or service for customers.
Best value? Certainly, it's a loss leader for the other products, so attracting people with low prices is what happens (and is why prices have fallen so rapidly recently and the aforementioned underwriting losses occur).
Remember Chris Knott Insurance from this forum? Cheap prices for S2000s, great reviews from forumites and then suddenly one day, no more policies being offered due to the huge losses they incurred.


Best service? Well, that depends. Nowadays in the event of a claim, people expect a courtesy car and so on. If that's not offered people will buy elsewhere. Competition at work! As I mentioned above, it's in the insurers' interests to get claims settled quickly as they tend to get settled for less.

As I mentioned above, spanner monkeys of all sorts cut many corners and rip people off every day.


Also, look at insurers' customers. Reading these forums will reveal how underhand and downright dishonest many people are with respect to their insurance.

Are they altruistic, of course not, they are in it to make a profit for their shareholders. The smarter operators (like Admiral and Direct Line) offer generally (but not always) good service and prices and make most of the profits.
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 07:02 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Polemicist
Still awaiting parts from Honda to begin the repair; 5 months and counting since the bint drove into the rear of the Insight.
Channel crossing must be hazardous...
Normal delivery time here is about 24h.
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 08:16 AM
  #13  
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The Insight is a Gen 1 and über-rare (only 250 or so in the UK); I suspect Honda are running down the parts stock for it.
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 08:22 AM
  #14  
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The problems are getting stuff from Japan to Belgium. There are often long waits for S2000 parts these days. For an Insight, it'll be even worse.
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 09:27 AM
  #15  
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the answer to the question posed by the op is self-evident if you take a look at the typical bodyshop employee

these are not on the whole people motivated by pride in their work

low standards are accepted by the majority of customers which also explains why they are so often perplexed when taken to to task over the quality of their work

in my not inconsiderable experience, close examination of most repairs will show up either:

a defect in the paint
a bodge in refitting parts and panels - the most common being the omission of gaskets, clips and screws
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 11:55 AM
  #16  
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is the rad a new one?

it could be fun to point this out if not
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Old Jun 16, 2014 | 10:53 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by gaddafi
the answer to the question posed by the op is self-evident if you take a look at the typical bodyshop employee

these are not on the whole people motivated by pride in their work

low standards are accepted by the majority of customers which also explains why they are so often perplexed when taken to to task over the quality of their work

in my not inconsiderable experience, close examination of most repairs will show up either:

a defect in the paint
a bodge in refitting parts and panels - the most common being the omission of gaskets, clips and screws
Couldn't agree more...

The most common, laziest bodyshop employee will also get away with p*ss poor preperation to a panel. I've seen many times where a panel hasn't been sanded back properly, using all the graded for a smooth finish, before the final paint / top coat. In fact, on my old Mk4 Golf there was a door panel that clearly showed this... What happens is, the "cutting corner" happens when the bodyshop bodger sands back the panel (after filling) with only a fine grade sander. Then quickly primes this, and paints too soon. (this will show a superb finish when buffed up.... for a "short time").
Once the primer has fully cured (it can take several weeks for the paint to fully harden), evidence of sanding grazes & strokes becomes evident... it almost looks like the panel has been painted with a brush.

Gets me cross!!
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Old Jun 17, 2014 | 03:12 AM
  #18  
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I have returned home after dropping the Insight off at the local Honda dealer for a routine service. There was the usual B.S. from the service department trying to sell an additional 'Emissions Service'. To make the experience worse, the loaner is a bland and uninspiring - albeit spacious - Jazz.

But back on-topic... en route home, I called into a friend's workshop; he specialises in racing cars and some mundane work for those he likes to work with. And he is also an ex-insurance engineer.

I mentioned the tale of the Citigo, which he easily topped. He had been working on a friend's newish 1-Series which had recently had a rear end shunt and had been repaired by the insurer's approved repairer. The owner asked if he would take a look under the car when it was on the ramp to check out the repair...

Upon investigation, the boot floor of the car was still badly creased and other structural components in the floor pan also showed evidence of impact damage, which had not been addressed. He subsequently called in a trusted friend in the business for a second opinion, who concurred. The 1-Series owner is beginning a long and tedious process with the insurer to have remedial work on the car carried out.

It's amusing that the caveat in most body repair estimates states that due to hidden damage, other parts and work may be required once the repair is underway. It's ironic that in the case of the 1-Series, a new bumper cover had been used to cover damage that was presumably identified but not repaired.

The bottom-line is that the responsibilities of insurance engineers who used to inspect pre and post repairs have been delegated to the punter, and the repair quality relies upon the integrity of the repairer, with spot-checks carried out ensure the standard of their work.
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Old Jun 17, 2014 | 03:17 AM
  #19  
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Did insurance engineers used to inspect every repair, or was that done on a spot check basis?
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Old Jun 17, 2014 | 10:36 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by lovegroova
Did insurance engineers used to inspect every repair, or was that done on a spot check basis?
Above a certain value plus spot checks. Then a system was introduced where 'every' job had a price/hours, repairers photographed the damage and sent the photo + estimate to the insurer for approval. Engineers looked at photos more than cars. That was 14 years ago. Dunno about now.
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