Car Talk - Non S2000 General Motoring and Non S2000 Car Talk

What would you like to know about engines?

Thread Tools
 
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 03:45 AM
  #41  
fluffyninja's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,273
Likes: 2
From: Chester
Default

Yeah, I can remember bits and pieces about them but struggling to find real details.
Things that strike me are that the crank must be mounted relatively high in the engine which isn't exactly desirable, the plate has to be a fairly hefty bit of metal which wouldn't lend itself well to quick engine response and the bearings would have to be very high end to avoid friction losses.

I'm not necissarily saying they would be but they'd be things I was looking at
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 05:11 AM
  #42  
lower's Avatar
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,652
Likes: 17
From: Market Harborough, Leics.
Default

I'd be interested in a discussion of why diesel engines are able to be more efficient that petrol engines.

On the face of it Petrol is a more calorific fuel so why can an engine not be designed to take advantage of that? I know some of the answers to that question, but it would be very interesting to know more.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 05:37 AM
  #43  
BuggyofMildDiscomfort's Avatar
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 119
Default

Diesel requires no throttling, which is a big power loss, can sustain higher compression ratios, which leads to higher efficiency, and the flame front spread isn't much of an issue on account of it being self igniting, even with the low FF speed.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 05:51 AM
  #44  
Nick Graves's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Default

...which in turn, leads to a horrible, slow-turning, torque-biased long-stroke design.

Great for efficiency, but not much fun.

The probability is, that Ottos & Diesels may well converge into a middle-pressure engine which combines the advantages (hopefully) of both.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 06:09 AM
  #45  
lower's Avatar
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,652
Likes: 17
From: Market Harborough, Leics.
Default

Originally Posted by BuggyofMildDiscomfort
Diesel requires no throttling, which is a big power loss, can sustain higher compression ratios, which leads to higher efficiency, and the flame front spread isn't much of an issue on account of it being self igniting, even with the low FF speed.
So why can't petrol engines be built to run with no throttle and therefore no pumping losses?

I'm sure a petrol engine could be made that could cope with the lean running conditions that you'd have with no throttle.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 06:35 AM
  #46  
Nick Graves's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Default

It needs to be run close to stochiometric, otherwise it won't start and run.

Diseasels can run lean most of the time, being CI.

You can dispense with a throttle valve by using variable valve lift, but the inertia in the valve drive causes big problems and aren't worth the ~10% gain. That's why A-VTEC was binned in the end.

With direct injection, it may be possible to run a spark ignition like a CI, but it's problematical.

Hence the middle-pressure engine may be some years away just yet.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 08:56 AM
  #47  
Si2k's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,423
Likes: 0
From: Reading, UK
Default

Deisel has slightly more energy per mass. However its a lot more dense so you get much more energy per litre. (10% more)
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 09:29 AM
  #48  
fluffyninja's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,273
Likes: 2
From: Chester
Default

Originally Posted by lower
Originally Posted by BuggyofMildDiscomfort' timestamp='1378215429' post='22758598
Diesel requires no throttling, which is a big power loss, can sustain higher compression ratios, which leads to higher efficiency, and the flame front spread isn't much of an issue on account of it being self igniting, even with the low FF speed.
So why can't petrol engines be built to run with no throttle and therefore no pumping losses?

I'm sure a petrol engine could be made that could cope with the lean running conditions that you'd have with no throttle.
Toyota valvematic engines are basically not throttled
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 09:35 AM
  #49  
fluffyninja's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,273
Likes: 2
From: Chester
Default

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHNXbGGvOdc

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uxfIQ7epvaI
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2013 | 09:37 AM
  #50  
soulcrew's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,680
Likes: 0
From: OLD SOUTH WALES
Default

why dont we use direct injection lpg in this country ?
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:51 PM.