The Corner House of Whores and Monkeys. Enter for Fun & Shenanigans! We're weird here. In the most awesome way possible.

The Semi-Official Hockey Thread...

Thread Tools
 
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 05:31 AM
  #1791  
WestSideBilly's Avatar
Thread Starter
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 93,305
Likes: 820
From: Nowhere
Default

Originally Posted by jedwards,Jun 15 2005, 05:53 PM
Rugby isn't a wussy game but fighting is rare. Traditional Hockey crowds? I don't think the 'traditional' hockey crowds, those who grew up with the game and whose parents and their parents grew up with the game, have much desire for the fighting or the cheap shots. In fact I'm fairly certain they don't. It's not the traditional hockey fan who is looking for fights.

The college and Euro model of hockey isn't a bad one to follow. If the ref's wanted to clean up the slashing and cross checking they could do that as well. Can they stop cheating? No. Look at non contact sports like basketball and waterpolo. But they could improve it by enforcing the rule.

Silly to have rules you aren't going to enforce. Game is sillier without them though.
I should have said traditional American hockey crowd. Especially the casual fans who only go to a few games a year. The canadians and snow-belt americans (MN, MI, CO, MA, etc) can probably adapt to whatever rules are enforced, but the 'rough stuff' is part of the entertainment package. I'm looking at this strictly from marketing, Jed - in terms of purity of game the Europeans have the NHL beat, but their game wouldn't sell as well here.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 07:38 AM
  #1792  
jedwards's Avatar
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 28,318
Likes: 9
From: This is not my house!
Default

Here's the problem... I think I agree that hockey is more marketable to an unknowledgeable audience if it is gooned up. It's the easy way but not the only way.

Several problems (that Bettman and his org'n don't give a crap about) arise though and not least of which is the 'purity of the game'. Until hockey is seen in it's purer form, American parents won't encourage their kids to play.

Rinks are popping up and a slow rate across the states but appearing nonetheless. Who plays hockey though? Hardly anyone. Who can blame parents for not encouraging their kids though when the idea is that they'll get their sweaters pulled over their heads and punched out?

OTOH, there are plenty of Cdns who are just as happy that is the perception... keep the sport to themselves (and a very few northern states). Look what happened when the Europeans decided hockey looked like a fun game.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 08:25 AM
  #1793  
THEOLDMAN's Avatar
Former Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,449
Likes: 0
From: Between Hell/Ann Arbor
Default

Hockey doesn't belong in the sunshine states, if they can't freeze a rink outdoors for the whole winter they shouldn't have the game there. It does belong to the northern tier, it was never a southern sport, no outdoor facilities for skating down there, until the advent of big arenas. How many hockey superstars came from the south, not players that were born and bred in the north and purchased by a southern team? There is not as much support there and it causes the cost to be spread out through the league. There's a lot of kids in hockey around here, but it is an expensive sport to be in for middle and high school students. The players have to buy their own gear, pads, sticks, skates. It's not like the more traditional sports in most schools, where the school supplies everything but the shoes.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 10:56 AM
  #1794  
jedwards's Avatar
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 28,318
Likes: 9
From: This is not my house!
Default

I'm not in disagreement with those statements.

Fact of the matter is that the NHL wants to make a lot of money. Billy says they can't extend to the southern viewers (read lots of money) without gooning. Hard to disagree with that either.

So what then?
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 10:58 AM
  #1795  
jedwards's Avatar
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 28,318
Likes: 9
From: This is not my house!
Default

Oh wait... did I just say it all comes down to 'greed'?
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 12:44 PM
  #1796  
Monkei's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,098
Likes: 0
From: Kelowna, BC
Default

Just read my local newspaper, Gretzky is going to be holding some of the initial Olympic training camps in Kelowna and Vancouver in August. I'll definately have to check that out.

Also, an initial draft of the Team Canada Olympic roster has been posted:
http://g.msn.com/0US!s6.73430_734763/3...1??cm=TSNSports

I was sad to see that my buddy didn't make the team, but then I read further down:
"We still need one goalie, one defenceman and three forwards to fill out the 23-man Olympic lineup."

Leading contenders

Goal: Jose Theodore, Montreal Canadiens; Marty Turco, Dallas Stars.

Defence: Eric Brewer, Edmonton Oilers; Jay Bouwmeester, Florida Panthers; Scott Hannan, San Jose Sharks; Robyn Regehr, Calgary Flames, Dan Boyle, Tampa Bay Lightning.

Forward: Kris Draper, Detroit Red Wings; Dany Heatley, Atlanta Thrashers; Kirk Maltby, Detroit Red Wings; Patrick Marleau, San Jose Sharks; Brenden Morrow, Dallas Stars; Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay Lightning.

Cool to see that they are considering Crosby too, if he performs well in his first 3 months.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 12:54 PM
  #1797  
THEOLDMAN's Avatar
Former Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,449
Likes: 0
From: Between Hell/Ann Arbor
Default

Originally Posted by jedwards,Jun 16 2005, 02:58 PM
Oh wait... did I just say it all comes down to 'greed'?
Sadly isn't that just about what all sports have come down to?
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 01:05 PM
  #1798  
WestSideBilly's Avatar
Thread Starter
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 93,305
Likes: 820
From: Nowhere
Default

Originally Posted by jedwards,Jun 16 2005, 10:38 AM
Here's the problem... I think I agree that hockey is more marketable to an unknowledgeable audience if it is gooned up. It's the easy way but not the only way.

Several problems (that Bettman and his org'n don't give a crap about) arise though and not least of which is the 'purity of the game'. Until hockey is seen in it's purer form, American parents won't encourage their kids to play.

Rinks are popping up and a slow rate across the states but appearing nonetheless. Who plays hockey though? Hardly anyone. Who can blame parents for not encouraging their kids though when the idea is that they'll get their sweaters pulled over their heads and punched out?

OTOH, there are plenty of Cdns who are just as happy that is the perception... keep the sport to themselves (and a very few northern states). Look what happened when the Europeans decided hockey looked like a fun game.
The alternate to marketing the physical aspect (which makes for great commercials) is to market scoring (Wait... let me finish ). There are two things casual fans understand about any sport - violence and scoring. Soccer is not friendly to the casual fan (which most every American who didn't grow up playing is) because 1 or 2 goals a game is the most one can expect. 0-0 ties are common. NFL Football has thrived in the last 10-15 years because rules were changed to encourage scoring while minimizing the injuries (especially to star quarterbacks and 'skill' players); millions of people watch NFL every sunday yet few know a 4-3 tackle stunt from a 3-4 OLB blitz and there are far fewer guys getting seriously hurt now. The NBA has tanked because coaches are better at teaching defensive schemes than they are at teaching guys to make 12 foot jumpers and free throws.

A 1-0 hockey game with no fights isn't something that's easy to sell to a new/casual fan. A 5-4 game with a lot of scoring chances and great saves is easy to sell to just about anyone. But I'd say that maybe 1 game in 100 fits in that category (figure a dozen truly great games a year). The playoffs are very hard to sell - scoring is down and fighting is all but gone, while cheap shot artists like Tie Domi thrive in that environment.

As for getting kids to play; it's never going to be as popular among kids as the other major sports - baseball, soccer, football, basketball, and golf. Hockey has the same problems as racing (reopening this can of worms) - it relies heavily on having fairly well off families to support the kids who want to play, and having a parent with enough free time to accomodate the traveling requirements. Canadia, Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts, Maine, Colorado - they have large enough programs were a less well off kid can get into 2nd/3rd hand gear reasonably and buddy up to get rides. But how many young players do you see from Detroit proper? Or the south side of Chicago? Not many, and you never will - it costs $15 for a ball and $50 for a pair of b-ball shoes, and they can play year round for little or no cost. Soccer can be played for minimal cost, and most schools with football programs provide everything but the shoes.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 01:06 PM
  #1799  
Monkei's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,098
Likes: 0
From: Kelowna, BC
Default

Baseball especially!
Outragious Salaries, and I would cringe to call 1/2 of those guys "athletes"... some of them are as athletic at bowlers or guys who play darts.
Old Jun 16, 2005 | 01:23 PM
  #1800  
dlq04's Avatar
25 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,834
Likes: 8,340
From: Mish-she-gan
Default

WSB, well said. That sums it up quite well!



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:33 PM.