Rear Liner System




S2KI User #: 117316
S2KI Age: 0 yrs 30 days
PPD Average: 0.4
Owner
2007 Silverstone/Black-Red
Canmore, AB



Like me, you have perhaps wondered why it was that a rear liner for the rear wheel wells of the S2000 was apparently overlooked by Honda – they did a nice job of sealing up the front wheel wells - why not the rear? Take the “Tap Test” on your own rear bumper skin, and/or run your fingers inside the open “C”- channel bumper beam inside the bumper skin, and see how much stuff falls out. Or if you live in a wet environment think about the amount of moisture that possibly sits inside this structural channel and the potential for corrosion. This beautiful car deserves better.

I have never received an acceptable explanation for this oversight (a spurious one was - “to keep the weight down”) and because of this I decided to try and rectify this deficiency both for my own vehicle and for others who may be similarly concerned. I have designed a close-fitting liner and under-liner that should keep most of the road gunk (snow, mud, salt, gravel, sand and moisture) out of the nether reaches of your vehicle to maximize underside cleanliness and minimize the potential for corrosion taking hold. I can provide you with a 3D model of these two parts which, with the download of some free software, you can view in 3D in detail.

I am seeking firm expressions of interest for the next few months (the initial "Marketing Period") to assess the financial viability of proceeding with the production of this liner which I call The S2000 RearLinerSystem (“RLS”). I have all the Solid Modeling done for both of the parts, for the molds necessary to thermoform them, as well as a manufacturer selected, so I am as “ready to go” as I can be at this stage. However, as you can perhaps imagine, having the molds manufactured or machined is a very expensive proposition for an individual and I will not proceed without a sufficient positive response within this Marketing Period. If the response is overwhelmingly positive within the early portions of the Marketing Period I may elect to proceed immediately with mold creation and will update you to that effect with pricing and anticipated availability. The “Kit” will comprise the 4 parts (RH and LH) together with all necessary mounting hardware. Final pricing will largely be a function of the size of the production run over which the mold costs can be amortized - the size of the initial production run, in turn, will be a function of the interest expressed by current S2000 owners.

It would be helpful to me to know whether your S2000 is an AP1 (years 2000-2003) or AP2 (2004-2009) if you could provide me with that bit of information in your email so that I can get some appreciation of the relative #’s of each ‘model’ in the fleet. Any feedback, positive or negative, would, of course, also be appreciated and [….may be] gratefully received.

If interested, please communicate with me (“Rick”) at hs2k.rls@gmail.com.

 

Update. Some have been enquiring about whether I have a prototype. Closest I can get you to a prototype at this point is the mockup photo that I included in my Gallery (HS2K.RLS, which is public. Perhaps you haven't seen that yet. The model is created from a scan of the very 'organic' surfaces of the inside of the wheel well and the model is very accurate with, and to, the surface mesh created by the scan. A rapid prototype is in the works and when available (probably towards the middle/end of the month) I will post pictures for members to look at - but they will not be substantially different than those shown in the eDrawing file I have invited interested parties to email me for. The rapid prototype will be for confirming Form and Fit, but because of the material used and the method of creation (3D printing) it will only be of limited functionality (the first rock off a wheel would probably destroy it). If it fits as I have designed and anticipate then the production model will be functional for the purposes for which I intended. Clearly no testing has been done yet and probably won't be from a racing/track (ie aero) perspective - I'll have to leave that to others as I don't race or track my car.

 

I am attaching a couple of images of the mold model with parts in place as I thought some might be interested. Perhaps with this there may also come some appreciation for why the molds are so expensive to machine and why the need for those who may truly be interested to express that interest. For those who wrote and requested the eDrawing file of the liner and underliner and then downloaded the free eDrawing Viewer software, I can provide a similar eDrawing file of the mold and parts that you can open in the eDrawing software and look at in detail. Send me an email request to hs2k.rls@gmail.com and I'll return the file so that you can have a detailed look at things. I do need an email address to send the file to as I have not figured out a way of doing this through the S2KI site (i.e it appears that this has to be done between us directly off- or outside the site).

 

so are these in production now?

 

Not as yet. I am expecting Rapid Prototypes of the RH versions momentarily for Form and Fit testing before going to final production of the molds. I hope that I will be able to post pictures of the RP parts both on and off the car sometime next week or early the following. Stay tuned. Regards

 

I have now received the Rapid Prototypes of the RH versions of the liner and underliner and am "over the moon" on the Form and Fit. Remember, all the design work was done on the LH side of the car on the assumption (after very close insepction) that the RH and LH are mirror images of one another - they are!!!!! The beauty of CAD. Have posted photos in the HS2K.RLS gallery. Production will be in 'sand' finished black HDPE so the match up with the existing fender trim will look great.Thickness of the thermoformed parts will be slightly thinner than the rapid prototype because of the nature of the production process. Now just need to get the interest level up to justify taking the next (expensive) step. Cheers to all.

 

These are some of the photos posted to my gallery Feb 24,2011 showing the Form and Fit test results of the RLS rapid prototypes received Wed of this week. I am very happy. How about you?

 

Follow up and to anticipate questions in this regard - I personally will use a 1/4" x 1/32" piece of double sided tape (available from any good model shop) between the liner and the edge of the bumper to ensure that that interface is tight. Also note in the pictures that the liner is being held in place by the regular bumper mounting screw only - it is that snug to the inside faces that it doesn't require more than that to keep it in place in a static condition. It was my intent that 3 additional screws would affix the liner to the face of the bumper skin (you can see pilot holes for those already in the RP) as well as 3 screws into the sheet metal inside along the small flat faced surface that runs accross the liner (if you look at the picture of the "behind" view you will see the sheet metal face hanging down about 1" from the box above it) so that you would have access to the backside of these screws/bolts if you needed or wanted to. These holes through the sheet metal would be lined to prevent galvanic action (rust), or the screws would be some sort of non conductive material (perhaps ceramic) for the same reason, with larger washers (like the present bumper mounting screw) to spread the load out around the hole and prevent fretting of the hole in the liner. So that is all the mounting "secrets" exposed. Cheers

 

Many have asked about pricing and in some cases I have written back PM's on this matter. So here's the poop - pricing is not yet fixed because it is a function of the size of the first production run which is, in turn, a function of the number of owners expressing a desire for this product. A minimum production run under the quotes I have received is 100 units. This means I actually have to sell/move 100 kits as I have no ability, physically or financially, to inventory these for any length of time. On a balance of probabilities maybe 10% (and one could argue about this ratio) of those who have said they would be interested may actually step up to the plate ( the "talk is cheap" syndrome), so that means I would have to have expressions of interest from approx. 1000 owners to justify going the next [expensive] step. As of this date we're not even close. As of this date, assuming a 1:1 ratio (which is not realistic on which to base a large capital expenditure), we are getting close. I need your help by talking to your friends who are S2000 owners who may be on other S2000 boards and therefore may not even be aware of this; if you belong to a club tell your fellow members at your next meeting. Tell your local Honda dealer. Initially I could only justify becoming a "vendor" member on one of these Boards for 3 months (ending Mar 15) , and of all, I selected S2KI because it appeared to me to be populated with people truly interested in the S2000, true enthusiasts, and from all over the world. With that exposure I had hoped that word would spread - you know - the "one(1) tells 10" phenomenon.

If it helps, my own personal price threshold (i.e. how much I would personally be prepared to pay) for something like this to protect my very special car would be maybe as high as $400 or $500 - if it was of a quality worthy of the car itself. Maybe I am crazy (my wife certainly thinks so!). But I have had responders say "up to $600 if it is of high quality" or "please don't make it out of CF and charge $1000". So I think I have some sense of the intrinsic value owners might attribute to such a part. My hope was to get the price into the $250 -$350 realm or lower but that is not going to happen on a production run of 100.

Please understand, I am a "one-trick pony", and retired to boot. In many ways this was a labour of love that I thought might have broader interest. I don't have a host of other S2000 products to sell against the revenues of which to off-set my "R&D Costs" on this project. These are the hard cold facts for me…. and for you. I hate to say it, but the ball is now in your (i.e. the collective) court. With the Rapid Prototypes I have proven the concept and am extremely happy (no - ecstatic) with the results. It is as good as I, a perfectionist, imagined it could be. This is exactly what I was looking for when I embarked upon this endeavour. But without a market it can all go for naught. This is a problem that all small businesses face when they start out so one has to proceed carefully from a financial point of view in the early stages.

Hope this helps or at least explains where we are at right now on this front.

 

After careful consideration I have decided that I am going to run a “Group Buy” for my RearLinerSystem for AP2 MY2004+ owners. I am terribly sorry AP1 pre MY2004 owners but I have just recently received drawings of the fender profile for the AP1 pre MY2004 bumper from an owner who owns both and it appears that my design, modelled on my AP2 MY2004+ bumper, will not interface with the AP1 pre MY2004 bumper profile in the bottom skirt area (the bumper is shorter than the AP2 MY2004+ and the skirt more truncated than on the AP2 MY2004+ which I did not know till now), so this will not mount properly in the fashion I had intended. If you want to try and modify the Liner, be my guest but I think it will only lead to frustration at what should have been. So in all honesty and with considerable regret and disappointment I can no longer, in good conscience, recommend this mod to AP1 pre MY2004 owners. Of course, if you have already, or are in the throes of changing out your AP1 pre MY2004 rear bumper for an AP2 (as a number appear to be doing), then I would love to continue to hear from you, if you are still interested.

I have posted the Group Buy details as a new thread under the Parts and Modifications Forum as that seemed to be the most relevant place to put it. Again my heartfelt apologies to AP1 pre MY2004 owners who expressed interest in this venture - believe me I am as (or more) frustrated by this than you. Thank you for your interest.