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Hey guys, I finally started putting things in the car. Here's what I bought:
Headunit: Pioneer / Premier DEH-P800PRS (previously installed)
Speakers: Pioneer / Premier TS-C720PRS 6.5" component set, no rear stage
Amp: Sundown SAX-100.4D (Class A/B), will be running full active
Sub: Not yet, and it will be a while
Wiring and install parts:
JL Audio 4 gauge amp kit
JL audio battery terminal
Monster's 302 series speaker wire-1x50' and 1x25'
Monster's 402 series RCA's--2x (got a deal)
Dynamat door kit
Also a bit of MDF, a few tools, and a few other helpful odds and ends from the hardware store that aren't shown.
I just decided on and bought the PRS set. They fit with a 3/4" spacer. I was looking seriously at the focals, SEAS components (and others) from madisound, the PPI set, and I looked casually at several others. Morels are one I probably should have spent more time on.
The reason I went with the pioneers is that I repeatedly heard that the woofer has excellent bass output and is great otherwise except a slightly low sensitivity. the tweeters are reportedly just ok, and on the included crossovers some people don't like the sound much. The crossovers are at 2kHz, but most people like the set crossed at 3kHz better. I'll be running full active with 4x100W RMS, and most everyone said that doing that gets around all the big issues with the PRS set and lets the woofer really shine. I figure if I hate the tweeter, I can chuck it and buy a new pair from madisound or skulk around on the DIYMA classifieds until something pops up.
My rationale for eliminating the others:
I was primarily comparing the PRS, Focal, Madisound's options, and the PPI set.
The PPIs are supposed to be great and the price is, but nobody seems to run them active, so I didn't find much input. I had $300 budgeted, and saving half of it would be nice but I honestly didn't care a lot. I've never heard them, and so having no online input either scared me away.
The focals are supposedly a bit weak on the midbass and really benefit from a sub. I won't have a sub for at least a year, and I'd like to not get one at all. I eliminated them for that reason. If I had a sub on the way, I probably would have given them a lot more consideration.
Madisound's seas line and other lines were close. I ended up eliminating them, but not for a terribly good reason. Mostly because 1/ I hadn't heard them (actually that's a fair reason IMO), and 2/ The ones I could get were nominally 8 ohm speakers; the 4 ohm ones were more than I could afford. That's kind of a stupid reason, especially since the sensitivity can offset for the higher resistance. 3/ The PRS set seems to have better midbass, based on scattered, indirect comparisons on DIYMA.
I heard the pioneers in person on a sound board and was impressed. I bought them based on that fact--I liked the sound--and the reportedly great midbass.
I'm probably going to hook them up this weekend, so I'll let you know how I like them, but I haven't been in the SQ scene long so I'm not sure how much I can help. I've been in car audio, but it was always more just loud than SQ until now.
Why JL wiring?
I got the wiring kit and battery terminal each for about $10 more than knu seemed to run on their website. JL uses marine grade wiring (tinned copper), and they look like a very complete, well thought out package. So I figured it was worth the little extra.
Day 1: Amplifier wiring
RCA's installed
Remote wire run
Ground wire run
Power wire -- not yet. Trying to figure out where / how is the best way to run it through the driver's side.
I'll be putting the amp on top of the spare tools. I'll build a nice rack for it later, but this weekend I hope to get sound and not have to redo any of the work. At least until I get a subwoofer and need to run another RCA cable...
First I needed to get to the headunit to install the RCAs and connect the remote wire. I ran these down the passenger side. I started by popping up the 6 or so clips that hold the top of the center console down.
I canted the center console piece back so that it was as far from the radio door as was easy. There are wires connected up, so it can only go so far before you have to do more work. Also, I don't want to remove and re-loctite my shift knob.
Next, I pulled back on the radio door to get it off. This was a PITA the first time, but it was pretty quick and easy subsequently.
Here's the side view of that door so you can see where the clips are. It's symmetric.
Then I pulled the radio and connected up the RCA's and remote wire. Here's the rat's nest:
Next, the part I dreaded. Getting it all the way back. I tried to get all the wires I could out and away or under the head unit. It still took me 5 minutes to get it in.
From here:
To here:
Next I routed the RCA's. I went as high as I could in the passenger footwell. I didn't bother with zipties or anything, but I will probably do that later if it doesn't stay put indefinitely. I pulled the right side footwell panel with no trouble--I think it was 1 screw and a pair of clips--and did the same with the S2000 logo trim piece at the door frame. That one was 3 clips. I ran the wire under the carpet as deep in the corner as I could get it. It went quick, and I didn't take any pictures.
Next I had to get behind the seat and into the trunk. The panels were each another bolt or screw or two and a few clips. I took some pictures of it to show where the RCAs went:
It came out behind the spare tire right here:
And here's the back of those panels so you can maybe get an idea of where the clips are. It wasn't hard to figure out.
I did run into an issue though. I tried to fit the 4 gauge power wire through the driver's side grommets. It was not going to happen, so I tried to push a snake through the grommets. I couldn't even get that going, although I didn't spend much time working on it. Wow, they pack the grommets tight!
I took a snap of the grommet below the underhood fuse box and master cylinder. This is right at the under the hood corner closest to the driver. Is that one that people suggest you cut open and run wire through? There are several grommets around that area.
I don't really want to run the wire through the passenger side and across my RCAs, so instead of running it through the grommet under the battery, right now I'm thinking I'll drop by a local car audio shop and pay somebody with a drill to punch a hole in the firewall. The JL amp kit came with a rubber grommet that matches the 4 gauge wire, so, assuming they drill with the right size bit, I would be able to seal the hole tight and would not expect any new issues. I might dab epoxy on the grommet just to make sure the cut metal surface isn't exposed at all to the environment. They're pretty liberal with salting the roads here in Salt Lake City... go figure.
Tomorrow I'm hoping to figure this out and then get started on the speakers. I bought a jigsaw and some 3/4" MDF ($5), and I have some spraypaint and epoxy to coat it with if I go the spacer route. I'd like to see though--some people dremel the basket. That sounds faster / easier on the surface, but then I might have to figure out weatherproofing...
Also, I'm really not looking forward to trying to stuff the wires through the door grommets.
To clarify...those are NOT good ground points. They're decent. And by decent I mean...you'll probably have noise, but you could have more noise.
A good ground is a dedicated hole that does not require the current to go through a weld to return to the battery.
The best ground is a quarter sized area with all paint and rust inhibitor removed via dremel (there are 10489032 coats of paint and inhibitor... collect them all!) located somewhere on the sheet metal with as few welds between it and the piece of sheet metal the battery's main ground is attached to. Next, drill and tap a hole. Finally, use a brass screw to attach the ground terminals. The solid ground is made through the screw threads, not the surface contact.
As for running the power wire, best bet is to run the power wire down the passenger side. There's a grommet on the passenger side behind the battery, much easier to work with (remove the battery...hint hint, wink wink) than the driver's side. There's less behind the passenger side quarter panel than on the driver's side, so less stuff getting in the way of the wires. This would, of course, mean moving the RCAs to the driver's side...but, really, that's not that big a deal...you'd be using about the same length RCAs whichever side they run on (shorter if you mount the amp over the fuel tank, same length if you orient the amp to have the RCA inputs towards the centerline of the car). Besides, doing this means less of the power wire is in the engine compartment.
I know it's late for this, but I would have suggested running 1/0 to a distribution block in the trunk. Why, you may ask? Because you plan on adding a subwoofer - even if sometime in the distant future. The way it is now, you'll have to run the power wire all over again when you add a sub amp. Much easier to run the 1/0 the first time around and have it ready and waiting for the sub amp to be installed. This, actually, is part of why I recommend using KnuKonceptz. Not because their prices are better (they are, esp if you purchase by the foot), but because you can customize the kit for what you need instead of a generic kit that will require you to spend more money in the long run (marketing's a bitch, yo). Experience is a harsh teacher
Well, I didn't get to work on the car today. Better luck tomorrow I guess.
Thanks for the input NS and all! I also got a PM about the power wire from a member. Thanks!
For the ground, I used a JL supplied piece for contact--basically a screw with a nice flat surface to connect to the wire, and the wire had a flat plate on the end ready to go. I bought a drill, so now it would be pretty easy for me to just dremel a surface clean and then drill a hole if I need to. Maybe tapping would be an issue, but nothing too challenging. Thanks for the advice there--if noise is an issue once I have sound, I'll have a little project for the next weekend.
I gave a lot of thought to starting with 1/0, and I originally planned to just run RCAs for a sub at the same time, but I ended up not finding one worth the money for a dead run (i.e. a decent quality RCA that was a screaming deal). But I'm not 100% sure I'll need it. I don't think I'll get a sub amp >600W RMS. 600W RMS class D + 400W RMS class A/B is definitely pushing the limits of 4 AWG, but it's not way out there. Probably 0.5V drop vs 0.2V or so? 2 AWG would have been ideal, but the kit was the same as a 1/0 kit, which was about 50% more than I paid IIRC. I gave it a LOT of thought, but I don't need it this year. Maybe when I finally get a sub I'll run a larger wire. It's always easier the second time through, right?
And I'll try that battery grommet tomorrow. If I can snake the wire through without too much trouble, I'll just swap the RCAs. Running the RCAs took a bit of time, but it was cake to do--no cuts or swearing at all. I got the impression some power wiring was running on the drivers side already, so I thought I'd want the RCAs away from there. I was actually set to drill the firewall first thing when I get to work on it--I have a drill bit for sheet metal, epoxy to cover the rough metal edges (idea being to make corrosion a non-issue), a grommet from the JL kit--but if I can avoid it I would rather not. So I'll see how bad that battery grommet is. If I don't get too fed up with tight squeezes for that same power wire, I'll run it that way and switch over.
Picked up some wire lube for the speaker wire and I got a snake the other day, but I bought 2x 2 conductor wire per side and now think that might have been a mistake. It's twisted and large, so I'm hoping it's not a huge PITA to get through the door grommets. A minor PITA would be fine.
I think pretty much the way to go is to just cut into the stock grommet. It doesn't need to be a big slit, just enough to get the power wire through.
Honestly, it's far better to have more than enough power to the amp than to be choking the amp. I have a JL 500/1 and an Audison LRx 4.300 - total wattage of 700W (ish) and I still ran 1/0, split to separate 4ga runs for each amp.
The SAX 100.4 only accepts 8ga, so you'd already need a distro block in the mix. Might as well have run 1/0 and split it to the 8ga. What happens in a year when you decide that you want to run a 1KW amp for your sub? You'll have to go back, pull the 4ga out, cut the hole in the grommet just a little more and F with getting the 1/0 through. Not to mention, you've wasted (to some extent) the $$$ you spent on all the 4ga you're no longer using...
ETA: This waste is why I'm a strong advocate of planning the entire build and working from the start with that in mind. As I've posted many times before, I've blown through over $10k in stereo equipment I no longer even own - that's not including the current $3l+ in equipment in the truck and $3k+ in the car.
You're correct about the stock wiring harness running down the driver side. This is another reason to move the RCAs to the passenger side. The wiring harness won't cause that much interference...but why tempt fate?
why run the power wire across the engine bay and then into the car? pull the battery out, then you will see a wire harness going thru fire wall, cut rubber, and runpower wire thru there, i pull passenger seat out, and carpet, run power wire along door edge, rca's i tape up along center drive shaft hump.
Originally Posted by 2big4aS2000,Jan 3 2010, 05:08 PM
why run the power wire across the engine bay and then into the car? pull the battery out, then you will see a wire harness going thru fire wall, cut rubber, and runpower wire thru there, i pull passenger seat out, and carpet, run power wire along door edge, rca's i tape up along center drive shaft hump.
That's already been mentioned...about 3-4 posts ago
Ace123's stereo build thread
I got the impression some power wiring was running on the drivers side already, so I thought I'd want the RCAs away from there. I was actually set to drill the firewall first thing when I get to work on it--I have a drill bit for sheet metal, epoxy to cover the rough metal edges (idea being to make corrosion a non-issue), a grommet from the JL kit--but if I can avoid it I would rather not. So I'll see how bad that battery grommet is. If I don't get too fed up with tight squeezes for that same power wire, I'll run it that way and switch over.
