As some of you know, I had my WRX on the circuit at Wakefield Park today. This was fortuitous coming exactly a week after the HSCC track day on the same circuit.

Unfortunately the HSCC day was not timed, and I did not break that rule, so lap time comparisons will have to rely on my pretty dodgy estimates. Today was a BMW Drivers Club day. These guys regularly have track days (6 a year or more) and are experienced circuit drivers. Electronic (laser) timing is used at all track days.

The cars:

In the red corner, stock standard S2000, Bridgestone S02s with heaps of tread.

In the blue corner, stock standard MY00 WRX (not STI), Bridgestone Potenza RE010 (205/50R16) also with lots of tread.

WRX best lap time 1:14.48

Last session of 7 laps, every lap between 1:14.50 and 1:14.80

I'll cut to the chase right away - I think the Honda is faster. It's unlikely to be more than a second a lap, and almost certainly not 2 seconds, but I think a good lap in the Honda is better than a good lap in the Subaru. However, the difference is almost entirely down to tyres. Put both cars on R compounds or slicks and there would be bugger all in it.

To put that lap time in perspective, only 1 car on street tyres was faster - by 0.2 seconds. That was a 200SX with boost, exhaust, springs, anti-roll bars, adjustable shocks and subframe lock kit, plus bigger tyres driven by a mate of mine. I also pulled away from him in every session so his lap time was a bit of a one off. We were outrunning M3s and similar machinery, which proves that the most important nut is the one behind the wheel.

Detailed comparison using the Buttometer ™.

S2000 beats WRX in mid corner speed (outright grip), especially in slower corners.

S2000 beats WRX under brakes (by a lot - surprised me since WRX has 4 piston fixed calipers).

WRX beats S2000 out of corners (dugh!) because of massive torque advantage and AWD. Some 2nd gear (Honda) corners could be taken in 3rd near max torque in the WRX.

Top speed on straight about the same - S2000 was quicker in the final hairpin onto the straight, but WRX rockets out of slow corners like that and could easily go flat through the kink, indicating well over 160km/h. I was backing off in the S2000, but this could be down to driver improvement.

WRX beats S2000 in ease of driving. It's a hoot to slide the thing around with lurid opposite lock and it's very easy to throttle steer it. I wish it understeered less though - front grip went away in every session as front tyre pressures rose (with heat). Sometimes it just would not turn in if you didn't set it just right for the corner or were going slightly too fast. Those RE010s are s**t too. They're hard as a rock and make enormous amounts of noise.

Overall, the driving technique is very different between the two cars. You can't wrestle the WRX into a corner using the steering as you can the S2000. It just doesn't have the front end grip and the weight balance is wrong. Instead you steer it by shifting the car's weight using the brakes and throttle. Mid corner, the steering does bugger all!

If my guesses are right, an S2000 on S02s could be right up with some fairly well driven M3s on R compound tyres on the basis of today's times.

Thing is, throw some mods into the equation and the WRX starts to look pretty good. Fastest car today was a MY00 WRX with suspension, brakes, R compounds and exhaust (maybe turbo, but intercooler looked stock) and he was doing 1:09.XX! He was quicker than a 3.2L M3 on slicks. Overall outlay for that car still much less than an S2000.

Anyway, I loved driving both cars on the track, and they will both be back as opportunity arises.

 

Thanks for the report ... a lot of good info there. What surpised me the most is that you say that the WRX and S2000 had roughly the same speed at the end of the straight ... that being somewhere round 160kph. You're the best judge of this as the only thing I can compare with is when I lined up my S2000 with my friend's WRX ('98). then WRX had the edge (in rolling starts - which relate to track conditions) up to 45kph. Then up to 110kph there was very little between the cars. Then up to 140kph the S2000 had a slight edge but over 140kph the S2000 was conciderably quicker.

Shame that you do not have a lap time of "you" in an S2000 as that would really shed some light on this comparo .... though what you wrote is more or less what I'd expect from the 2 cars. Though, I'd expect a fair bit more cornering speed from the S2000 in 100kph+ corners - are there any like that at Wakefiled?

ps. 'race' tyres or even 1/2 road/race tyres are worth a lot on a track. The 1/2 race tyrte is worth good 3 secs on a ~1min track and the full 'race' tyre is worth at least 2x that.

pps. $10k of mods on a WRX will give you 240kW (including 17" wheels/tyres and suspension mods) and according to the latest Motor mag 0-160kph in ~11secs!!!! that is good 3 secs quicker than S2000 on a good day. Just incredible.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]What surpised me the most is that you say that the WRX and S2000 had roughly the same speed at the end of the straight ... that being somewhere round 160kph. You're the best judge of this as the only thing I can compare with is when I lined up my S2000 with my friend's WRX ('88). then WRX had the edge (in rolling starts

 

If you are interested in WRXs on Wakefield speak to Jim Guriff at Whiteline they have the fastest WRX times around both that and Eastern Creek with a car modded with their springs, sway bars, ant-lift kits, shocks, etc..

As far as timing the S2000s there were a lot of videos running both external and in the cars and heaven forbid if one was to use a watch against those videos and get an idea. Naishou if you remember AusS2000 was following you on your laps at one stage with the video going so you never know. I would also be interested in the yellow ITR as the owner driver (session 1) races it and is very competitive although he was cautioned by some on Sunday not to tell his lap times to avoid the more enthuiastic other ITR drivers from trying to emulate his times - I don't think that worked..... I hear that his times are consistently sub ~1'12" but not certain.

 

If the ITR is modified and on R compounds then sub 1:12 is probably possible. It would have better power to weight than my WRX and a lot more grip. I was more or less on the limit of grip the whole way round the track barring the straights, including using ABS into every corner (no brake feel at all, so I let the computer do it), so I'm pretty confident that the standard car can't go much faster. For the record there was a modified WRX there that was doing slightly slower times than me. The owner claimed that nobody in the WRX club can do 1:14s in the standard car on OEM tyres.

If Aus got a full lap in one of the later sessions on video that might be very interesting. Even so, I think if I had the S2000 on the same circuit tomorrow I would be at least a second quicker than on the HSCC day, simply because I know the track better and have improved my driving outright over the two weeks. I think there are more track days in my future and the S2000 will be back at Wakefield with timing some day.

Oh yes, and there is definitely Whiteline suspension in the WRXs near future. Got to get that power on understeer under control.

 

Just by total accident I was flicking though a Feb'00 issue of Motor magazine. It just happens to have a < $40k 'track test' at Wakefield Park :-) Looks like a very nice track from the picture they have here ... I would have loved to run there :-)

Anyway, they have a TypeR Integra there the time they managed is 1:18.4 secs. Also, they managed 158kph at the end of the main straight (this was 10kph faster than the Celica SX). Then through turn #2 (end of main straight) they slowed down to 75kph. Though the Abbey corner they pulled 106kph (comapred to 96.8kph for Peugeot 206GTi and 100.1kph for the Celica) Do you (or anyone else) remember their speeds though these corners?

Anyway, TypeR is about even to 160kph with the pre '01 WRX so it looks like you were going as fast as you can on the main straight. Your lap time is a lot better than what Motor managed to get out of the TypeR ... I would have though that the WRX and TypeR (and 200SX) would have lineball laptimes on most tracks. Maybe they are just not as fast a driver as you :-)

If someone can get the laptimes out of the HSCC track day video, then that would be awesome.

 

Not sure when it happened (sometime between my two visits , July 2000 and July 2001) the track was extensively changed to speed it up for our Touring Cars (modified sedans). Not sure what impact this would have on times but in particular the exits from corners had generous additions to the outsides which allows much higher speeds through some significant corners.

 

That's right. The track is now 2 to 3 seconds faster, depending on the car. My mate's 200SX used to do 1:17, now he's in the 1:14s, but the car's had some extra mods since then too.

I think it was Peter Mackay doing the driving for Motor, and he's a pro race driver as well as a motoring journalist, so I'm pretty happy to get times in the same ballpark as him. I guess I have the opportunity to know the car better, though he should be familiar with the track.

In turn 2 I was indicating over 90km/h in third, sometimes closer to 100 if I got it right. However, the exit of that corner has been opened up a bit, so it's not directly comparable. I'm not sure which corner is Abbey, but if that's the last right hander before the back straight, I was up around an indicated 110 through there, but most often about 105. Once again, there's more room on the corner exit than there used to be.

I think a Type R and the WRX would be very close around Wakefield because they have similar power to weight and the same tyres. The Integra would turn in better and carry more corner speed but the WRX would beat it on corner exit.

PS: Just picked up a second set of rims for the WRX last night. R compounds coming up!