pieter k

Hi all,

I've been reading these forums for a while, and many of the basic introductory threads and FAQs have been very helpful. Sadly, the search function isn't so helpful.

Here's the story: I drove an '02 S2000 Sunday and simply fell in love with it. I'm completely haunted by the memory of this car. I also test drove a '98 Boxster, and while it was a good and interesting car, the S2000 eclipsed it.

I was originally going to buy a 97-99 Boxster specifically because I've wanted a strictly weekend type roadster but also one that could eventually go racing in the Porsche world (I have a 911 race car), and there is a new Boxster Spec Racing class that is being picked up by multiple Porsche clubs and sanctioning groups. The spec calls for 97-99 Boxsters.

The problem is, I also drove the S2000, and it's simply magic. Hands down the best sports roadster I've driven, and given the price, it's pretty much a no-brainer. The only competition I'm personally seeing are the Lotuses, but even they are quite a bit more expensive. I respect and like Miatas too, but they're not for me. I also respect STIs, Evos, etc., but I have no interest in a sedan, nor in small(ish) displacement engines with turbos, and given that I have a race car and don't need another car that's not pretty to be in, what I will call the austere luxury of the S2000 really speaks to me. It's a world better than the Subie or Mitsu; somewhat like my R32, which has been retired to strictly daily driver status.

I don't see myself tracking the S2000; maybe once or twice for fun, but I have the 911 to race in, so that itch gets scratched. I'd be using the Honda for fun day drives, up in the mountains, and long road trips. And when I say long, I mean with the possibility of five to ten days long.

What do you think? Will I hate the car on long trips like that? Some owners I've talked to in person have said they're not bothered.

Three years ago, I drove 5,000 miles in two weeks with a friend in an 87 MR2, and loved it, so I'm not sure I'd be fazed by the cramped interior and lack of luggage space. I love sports cars, and I love small cars. Also, I drive my 911 to and from the track, and you can NOT have a conversation in it, so even if the S2000 is a bit on the noisy side, I'm not sure I'm too bothered.

But, do conversations at freeway speeds with the top up become tiring?

The car will also see a fair amount of time driven fairly sedately.

Any general thoughts on that?

With the '02 S2000, I was surprised at how tractable it was in normal city driving. Yeah, it doesn't blast off from a stop, but that's okay. Personally, I think critics have overstated the lack of torque for general purposes, and I suppose the 07 that I'd be looking at will have even more than what I drove. But then again, my 911's engine is peaky, so I'm used to driving a car that doesn't really develop most of its power until high in the power band.

A few more questions:

Do the factory aero parts have any functional effect, or are they just for show?

How much easy weight can you get out of the car without doing any cosmetic harm to the car (i.e., I won't strip anything you can see)? I'm a believer in light weight; my 911 is currently class limited to 2,324 lbs (and with 227 bhp, it moves), so if there's easy weight to lose, out it goes.

Is there a consensus on best brake pads to use on the car strictly for the street that don't require getting heat in them to work as well as possible?

Other than that, I don't intend to mod the car. I'm so impressed with its handling out of the box, I don't see much need to mess around.

Another question: I've only got a two car garage, and the 911 and R32 are already in it. I'm not sure if the R32 or S2000 will get the second spot; maybe I'll cycle them.

Will I hate myself if I keep the car parked outside (I live in Los Angeles)? What if it's black? That's the color I want.

I'm looking to buy or lease new. It just seems easier for me right now, and whatever added levels of dealer/factory support are desirable. Thoughts?

I've gotten my best quote from Pasadena Honda, and since this is definitely a super optional purchase, I'm willing to walk if the terms aren't that good. My credit is strong.

The biggest question of all for me is if I can justify having a third car. It would be prudent not to; I already have a toy and a DD, but man, this car is just magic. It's gorgeous. You all are in the right car, that's for sure.

Plus, what other modestly priced NA car is there with specific power exceeding the 100hp/liter threshhold? That's worth owning!

Cheers guys! Sorry for the great length--I'm doing lots of thinking out loud here and trying to decide if I'm in.

If so, I may be chatting with you all as a new owner as soon as Friday.

glagola1

Wow. There's a lot to touch on in your post.

I have owned my 2000 S2000 for almost three years now. I've auto-xed it religiously since 5 days after I bought it. It has been my only car until a month ago when I bought an 88 CRX Si that I'm going to build into an STS2 autox car.

The cruising noise with the top up is a non-issue. Just be sure that there is no air gap between the windshield and the roof. It's easy to fix if there is.

The car is basically about as tuned as a normal enthusiast would accept for daily driving applications. Any addition of aftermarket REAL go fast parts starts the car on a quick slippery slope into race car being. That includes brake pads. The stock pads have a great bite and are really the best for the street but they will fade on the track so be prepared to have track pads and a fluid change for track days. Other than that, it's good to go.

You can get the car down to 2700 lbs easily by taking out the spare and tools and exchanging the 50lb exhaust with something much lighter but at the cost of noise of course. You could also spring for some light wheels but that's less weight/$$$ benefit.

Regarding long trips... shoot. I've driven 14 hours one way for weekend auto-xes and the seat is really comfortable for me. It fits just right and the ergonomics don't put a strain on your body. I think it's fine for long trips.

As far as it being something worthwhile to add to your collection... I don't know. That's up to you. It's quite different than an R32 as you may know. It makes more smiles but has less practicality.

It's up to you but I'm sure you'll enjoy the car especially if you take it to an auto-x or something so it can really shine.

pieter k

Thank you! That's very helpful insight!

So much of what impressed me was that quality of being tuned out of the box. I can't honestly think of much it lacks as a contemporary pure driver's roadster. The R32 definitely had some shortcomings from the factory (mainly suspension).

I don't intend to do anything to the car that points it in the direction of racing. Like I said, I have that base well covered. I may take it to one or two track days with POC to see what it's really about, but I won't be pursuing that in much depth.

I know it's not practical, but that's fine. I can fit four people in the R32, and I put my track bike in the back when I go to the track, and have had bags of concrete in it, soil, plants, tools, wheels, etc. That base is covered too.

So yeah, pure fun street car with the top down option!

Chazmo

I won't kid you... Traveling long distances with a passenger does become tiring in terms of talking loud and noise from the motor (especially with top up). But, I've done some long weekends in the S and I love it.

The fact that you loved your test drive pretty much says what needs to be said.

Black is a bear to keep looking great. I don't think that's anything unique to the S2000, but you have to decide what's important to you. I always tell people to buy the color that speaks to them.

pieter k

Thanks Chazmo.

You're one of the first people I've encountered--besides professional reviewers--to suggest that it can be a little tiring with conversation and the noise. Thanks for that.

But, I'm not worried. Besides, I just got back from a couple hours in the 911 in the mountains with other Porsche drivers, and it reminded me of what loud in a cabin really is. Conversation is out of the question. Music is out of the question (I pulled the stereo long ago), and if it were more than a couple of hours without a helmet, I'd have earplugs in, as I do to and from the track normally. So, compared to that, I'm sure it's more than fine.

And you're right about the test drive. That pretty much says it all.

I'm off to the dealer tomorrow. We'll see what happens!

Happy Thanksgiving all.

cthree

Depending on your size you may find it confining but if you've spent time in an MR2 then you shouldn't have a problem. You will need to peel yourself out every 3-4 hours to have a pee, fill up and have a stretch. You will spend a lot of time on long trips with the top up. Top down is nice on short trips but the sun burn, wind burn and that constant flapping of your hair, no to mention the noise, will get to you. For me 2 hours top-down max then the top goes up, less time in the summer afternoon.

You will find it uncomfortable after 4 hours since you can move around much once you're in. Make sure to stop often and give your cheeks a shake. I did a lot of long highway trips in mine and complained plenty but it always went away and I only remember it being a good time later.

I personally enjoy the solitude of long drives alone. The S2000 is your own little spaceship. If you like to travel with a partner make sure they are small. I'd done ten hours with a full grown adult male and it's a little too intimate for comfort, a bit like being trapped in a phone booth.

dead-bird

I have been on a several longish trips of 10hrs or so in a day.

The seat is as far back as it will go and I could use a few more inches to be happy. I'm 5'11'' 215lbs.

The steering wheel is about right for me and that's good as it's not adjustable.

Lumbar support is lacking.

I could stand the seat being at least an inch lower. Some have modified the seat pan to do this and it may be in the future for me as well. I am constantly ducking to see traffic lights. The mirror often blocks my view when making right hand turns, (This is a killer at the Dragon when many corners are also up hill). It has to be low to see out the rear window but it would be nice if it were more adjustable so it could be raised when the top was up.

Accelerator pedal need to be wider.

Overall the car seems to be designed by generally small people. And in actuality, it was.

Other than that, it's about perfect.

Enthralled

check the Socal section before purchasing...they have a couple of Honda dealers that reside there.




peace

pieter k

cthree, I love that description of the car being like your own personal spaceship. That's the kind of experience I like most.

When I sat in the S2000, that feeling was there. You can reach out with your hands and touch every part of the cabin. It's intimate; it's private, it's only about one thing: driving. The car will have no other purpose for me. It's not for running errands, or going to work, or taking my bike to the track. Just driving.

It's strange comparing it to the R32, which most people already consider a small car. I have friends who say it even feels cramped, and yet to me, over the last few months, the cabin and dash area have started to feel strangely cavernous, which is fine for a daily driver, but less conducive to serious driving.

Hair in my face is not an issue (no hair!); sun is. Hat and sunscreen are always close at hand though.

Thanks too for emphasizing that the car can be tiring on long drives. I'm okay with that; like I said, the tolerance threshhold for me is very high, driving a track-prepped car to and from the track, and on fun runs in the mountains. It's more a consideration for any potential passenger.

Thanks dead-bird for another honest assessment. I'm 5'8" so these kinds of issues don't pose a problem for me.

Can the accelerator pedal be adjusted? I didn't think it was too narrow (I rather like really narrow pedals, even the traditional plates on English sports cars, like old Lotuses and Triumphs), but I did think its placement relative to the brake was not optimal for the way I heel/toe.

One other technical question for anyone: when you disable VSA, is it completely, totally, absolutely having no effect on the car, or is it still partially active like in some German cars? It would be ideal if it were an absolute shutoff. If not, has anyone found it intrusive when driving hard?

And how often do any of you find the ABS working? I'm personally not a big fan of ABS, so would prefer a very high activation threshhold, with minimal intrusion.

Enthralled, I will check the SoCal section; thanks!

Thanks all. This is an awesome resource.

sca037

Pieter,

I can't speak to the new versions (as you may remember from my response on the Pelican Parts BB ours is a first year model), but after a full demonstration run at the hands of a fellow P-car owner he asked if the car even had ABS! Not because he locked the brakes (he did try, as I was following behind him in his 944 S2 Cabriolet), but because he didn't. I took that as a compliment to Honda, as well as the fresh S0-2's on the car. I've only engaged the ABS once as a test.....in the rain.
I've also noted that cars with the full black interior (our interior is red/black) do give more of an impression of being cramped inside, in spite of their dimensional equality.....
In terms of where to park, I'll offer that being a convertible vandalism and theft (particularly the expensive-to-replace-seats, since apparently they are coveted in some parts of the country for Civics and the like) concerns might just have the R32 doing the night watch in the driveway

So, did your Thanksgiving include 'talking turkey' with any area dealers?
Brian
(S2000 & 944)