Backstory: I had a nasty spinout a few weeks ago making a seemingly normal turn at a stop sign. I made a rolling stop, and hit the gas going into the turn, no more than 15 mph. My back end came around 180 degrees (or 270 from the start of the turn), and stopped just short of whacking the curb with my real wheel. Needless to say, this scared the bejesus out of me. I'm pretty sure it was a combination of cold tires and a funny dip in the road during the turn (no ice on the road), but in any case, I don't want to repeat it.

So I'm looking to take a course this spring and wanted to get some feedback on FATT vs. accident avoidance at summit point. I plan on doing both eventually, but I only have time for one in the next couple months.

I'm leaning towards doing FATT first since I think my problems are more S-specific - I'm pretty new to RWD and oversteer. Now that it's getting warmer, cold tires will be less of an issue, and I'm putting all-weathers on them before next winter, but I still think FATT will be helpful. Is the FATT instruction what I'm looking for?

I'd like to get some feedback on BSR's accident avoidance as well, since it's more safety-centric. I'm not sure how helpful it will be in the short term, though, since it looks like I'll be using big american sedans in that course and not the S.

http://www.bsr-inc.com/FATT.HTM
http://www.bsr-inc.com/AAS.HTM

Hehe, once I've done both, I'll be a certified FATT AAS

Thanks in advance. Just looking to keep my (and everyone else's) insurance premiums down.

 

I took a driver school (Racing Adventures) and I think FATTs are about 80% of the driving school experience at 1/10th the cost.

If you even a bit careful, you won

 

Let me throw in my .02,

As a former motorcycle road racer that knows the main circuit at Summit Point like the "back of my hand" (I can still do laps in my head with a stop watch and get within about a second of my lap times almost thirty years ago ) I would go for accident avoidance or a car control clinic before FATT.

May I offer this analogy? If you snow ski without the benefits of instruction it takes a really long time to learn. Becuase one is starting from the base of "Unconscious Incompetence" (you don't know what you don't know). It sounds like your spin that scared you may have been caused by "Conscious Incomptence" If you do a FATT with either of those competence levels you will likely have two outcomes. You will continue to do the wrong thing because you don't know that it is wrong, or you may be smart enough to figure that out on your own and correct it. My point is: Why not get some car control instruction so you are practicing the correct thing to do not practice what you are already doing wrong (you know the outcome of that was NOT the desired outcome.

As a "life long" student of driving as an art form I have always strived for "unconscious competence" as my skill level. Where you do what you do instinctively without thinking about it because it has become second nature.

For those of you that may not be familiar with the four levels of competance they are:

Unconscious incompetence (one does not know what they don't know)
Concscious incompetence (one realizes that they are imcompetant)
Conscious competence (one is competant and thinks about what they are doing)
Unconsicous competence (where one does the correct thing without thinking about it)

I hope that you find this helpful? I would be curious as to opinions on my opinion?

 

I think I am incompetent of consciously understanding what you said

j/k I think that's good info!

 

funny guy

 

Matt,
I am taking the PCA instructor training (5 hours classroom + track time). I'll be at Summit this Friday for the track portion. They PCA guys hammer the four levels of competance into your head. It is simple but true. I'm still struggling to get out of the second stage.