With a collective bargaining agreement, how can Alaska Airlines mgmt introduce a 26% wage reduction? Even under arbitration, wouldn't there be some sort of clause in your contract that does not allow for such actions?

I am really curious as to how this happened. Mainly because I wonder why GM and Ford can't do the same to their unionized workforce.

 

In the case of Alaska Airlines, the pilots were NOT demanding more.

I think all airline unions understand the economic landscape has changed in the first half of this decade. The unions have a choice - don't modify the contracts and get "full pay to the last day". Or, modify the agreements to be more inline with what the company can afford. I don't think anyone wants to "choke the golden goose", and it is a labor unions charge to preserve jobs.

The Alaska pilots DID present a concessionary agreement, and asked to view books to verify what the company said was needed.

There was NO requirement by the union to reopen the contract, but in the current climate they were willing to participate to help maintain the viability of Alaska Airlines. IMO, it was a reasonable request on the part of the union to "trust but verify" the companies numbers and assertions by conducting a financial analysis on the "real" books. The company refused, and one would guess that they were unable to justify the cuts.

So the union offered what they though reasonable (7% reduction across the board) based on the information they had available. The two parties were unable to reach an agreement, and they subsequently agreed to binding arbitration.

And so, my point of this thread was based on the due diligence of this union along with their supporting arguments to the arbitrator - I found it amazing that this "neutral" couldn't find common ground. The idea of "interest based" arbitration is great and will always result in enhanced employee relations (if properly managed). In the case of Alaska Airlines, I think it's going to get ugly over there.

Regards -

PS. I don't work for Alaska, just interested in the process.

 

The Alaska pilots had a clause in their contract in which they agreed to enter into, and abide by the results of binding arbitration in the event of an impasse. That clause no longer applies with the new imposed agreement. I can't get that Who song out of my head now "We won't be fooled again".

Again, what I found remarkable about this was that Alaska Airlines IS profitable which is rare these days. To see these results via arbitration under such conditions is pretty amazing.

As for GM and Ford, I'm not familiar with IAW contracts so I wouldn't venture a guess. Airlines bargain under the Railway Labor Act which is fairly unique.

Cheers -

 

The Alaska Pilot's Union message and the text of the arbitrators decision:

http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.com/show...p?p=674#post674

I think that the last line speaks volumes of the future of Labor Relations at Alaska Airlines: "The MEC is pleased the arbitration and no strike letter no longer exist."

 

The airline industry has been top heavy for years with 12+ year captains flying 3-4 trips a month over the Atlantic, making $250,000 a year while the little guy, flying back and forth from New York to Boston 4 times a day is making barely $20,000. I knew pilots at one major airline where I interned back in college making $20-25k a month. There were many ways to work the system. Things like trip buying where the company would buy a pilot's trip to put another pilot in there for training. The 1st pilot got paid time and a half for the inconvenience. It all added up. I got to see what they made every day. It was amazing to see a 2 week paycheck for $10,000 for someone that was home 15 days out of the month.

As far as comparing driving a bus to flying for a commercial airline; I'm not sure a bus driver has to pay out of the pocket for $20-30k worth of training just to get the required licenses and ratings it takes to even fly for an airline, much less need a 4 year BS degree to do so. Some airlines don't require a 4 year degree, but I can tell you right now that it'd be nearly impossible to land an airline job without one.

Getting a job with a major airline takes years of hard work and experience. Just because you go pay $30k for your private pilot's license, instrument rating, multi-engine rating, commercial rating, and certified flight instructor certificates doesn't mean you then submit your resume for a job with 250 hours of flight time. Back when the airline industry was booming (2000-2001) and the airlines couldn't hire fast enough, major regional airlines like Continental Express (now ExpressJet) were still requiring a minimum 800-1000 hours of flight time. Now it's more like 1500 hours minimum. How does one get that much flight time? Well, I for one became a flight instructor. Working for one of the nation's largest aviation schools, I started at $12.50 an hour with full benefits (which was pretty good compared to other flight schools), working 12-13 hours a day, 6 days a week. Of course we didn't get payed salary. We only got paid when we were teaching a student. So, out of the 12-13 hours at work, I usually brought home 8-9 hours of pay. That was a good week. If the weather was shitty and I couldn't go up and teach, flights got cancelled and I lost money (and flight time). If one of my pain in the arse college students decided to party all night and not show up to fly the next day, I didn't get paid. I did that for 8 months before building up enough hours to apply to an airline. Unfortunately, about a month after I applied and got an interview lined up for a job, Sept 11th happened. I wound up instructing for 10 more months before getting accepted to the Air Force. Even if I did get a job with a regional airline, making $20,000 a year, it would have taken at least another 2 years to move to the left seat as captain where I could log pilot in command time and make about $35,000-40,000 a year. It'd take another 2-3 years after that to build up enough time to get hired with a major airline, flying a B737 for example, starting at about $50,000 a year. How many other jobs do you know of that require a process like that where at near 30 years old with a BS degree you're making $50k a year after having spent $30k or so on training? Some people don't realize just how long it takes to get to a major airline. Comparing it to being a bus driver, other than them both operating means of transportation, is somewhat rediculous. So, a bus driver has more of a chance to be in an accident. That's probably true, but what are the chances of them being fatal?

 

I find it interesting how quickly the public vilifies pilots (or any organized labor) for the salaries they earn, and pilot unions for crafting a contract for pilots to work under.

A sports agent does the same thing by selling "talent", services, and availability of their client. But instead of calling them names for the compensation they "earn", the public makes them pop icons. Fickle bunch that public.

Pilots are paid for AVAILABILITY, it's up to company to produce an efficient schedule and manage the airline. Also, labor contracts are agreed upon by both parties. There has NEVER been a pilot contract imposed on an airline. The airlines bargain, and then sign the contract. If they can't operate under the proposed terms, they have the right under the railway labor act to lock-out labor and hire scabs - or cease operations.

 

Well, to be a doctor you go through a minimum of 11 years of education.
Yes, you have to pay your way through school. And no, it doesn't cost $30K. It's usually upward of $100K.
During residency you work at least 80hrs/week and get paid $35-40K/year.
Oh, and to be a doctor you have to be near the top of your class.

Same thing goes for PhD except they're treated worse.

 

not trying to be a jerk but times are tough and everyone hurts.

 

I think the question posed in the quote is the whole point in a nutshell. Why do you think that is true? Is it because you have highly trained, highly motivated pilots who have been put through extensive skill and psychological testing prior to being hired?

The commercial airline pilot job only seems like a bus driver position to the passenger because everything seems smooth and seamless in the back relative to the safety of flight. On a bus, you are aware of most of the progress of the ride. On an airline flight, you are not made aware of the thousands of little decisions that keep the flight safe and smooth, based on the skill, experience and training of the pilot. After a safe landing on a flight on which an emergency has been declared, the departing passengers are not so quick to utilize the term "bus driver."

Also, please name another job where one single error can cause the company over $1 billion dollars in liability, most likely destroying all or most of the stockholders equity.

 

No doubt. Times are changing, the US will be a third would nation in the next 15 years IMO. I think more and more American workers will see reductions in pay, benefits, and job security in the coming years. The government's role has shifted from the people at large to pandering to special interest groups - namely corporate America. I personally think it's going to get worse for all of us. But that's a different thread.

Again, I didn't start this thread to glean sympathy for airline pilots, or try to make people feel bad for the Alaska airlines pilots who just took it in the shorts.

The real shocker to me was how far out-of-line the results of arbitration were vs. what most people expected. It was a process that should find common ground but didn't (by a long shot). It would leave one to speculate how it happened. I do know that the arbitrator will never work with a labor group again.

All the US and Canadian airline pilot pay rates can be found here: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/44/36/