Pretty ironic that a political "scientist" would go out of his way to write something like this, no?

I guess he'd rather have a bunch of politically savvy high school kids who will be able to say how old they are by showing ten fingers and eight toes and yelling, "THIS many??!!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/op...pagewanted=all

 

Mr. Hacker starts off with the tail-wagging the dog, IMHO. He lists dropout statistics. . . then says it's Algebra. I have to take it on faith that his interviews are correct. I for one, would want to see a more concrete set of data proving that it's Algebra tripping everybody up. I have a hard time believing that Algebra (and the related logical concepts) isn't the building block upon which most other "practical math" (stats, calculus, matrix algebra) is based.

Upon re-reading the article twice, I realize he just doesn't get to the heart of why Algebra is still in schools, and why everybody can't give it up. That article, if it existed, would be far more interesting to me.

 

Interesting.. Could his point be that not everyone has talent in math and that the required math courses are holding people back that have talents elsewhere?

 

This article reflects the culture of laziness and instant gratification in the U.S. It's sad, really.

 

It, "reflects" the culture of laziness? I'm not entirely sure how lazy a published professor emeritus is, but I'm all ears.

Professor Hacker pretty much states that there are other criteria involved when evaluating other cultures outside of the U.S.:
Until I see a study that has "laziness" clearly listed as an excuse for drop-out rates, I'm going to assume the cause of the drop-out rates in the U.S. is a bit more nuanced than laziness.

 

I propose to Mr. Hacker, that we also de-necessitate the function of mandatory English/language classes, because it's irrelevant for C++ coders and blind musicians.

I would also like to see Mr. Hacker quantify how he knows it's a heightened "perseverance" leading to the success in one particular subject? What's exactly is the perseverance metric, and how do you test for it? And wouldn't any good Doctors suggestion be to boost the "perseverance" of Americans then, if that was the point of failure, before amputating it? And how do we know it's not the perseverance of American, or Finnish students, but of their respective teachers?

Also, it begs the question, is Finnland's notoriously sacred education system an Outlier, or is there something more to be said about teacher pay and where they land in society both financially, but as priorities. How are teachers looked at in S. Korea and China? It's no secret that America's teachers have been rag dolls to constantly changing Federal and local bureaus and budget restraints (especially in the last decade+), and for some reason are not looked to with the respect most (not all) deserve.

I would also like to point out to Hacker that there's many things America needs, and at that bottom of that list, is more political opinion.

 

agreed!

Why learn to read, maybe everyone's talent is in buying iphones.

 

I think sometimes algebra is made too "abstract" for kids but honestly, it's a requirement in life. Either way, basic math skills are lacking badly in the USA, based on my experience with recent graduates, and it's not getting any better.

I think it's a function of not wanting to do the work if something doesn't come naturally/easily. It's also a function of poor parenting that doesn't provide a basis of learning/improvement at home. The USA is a poster child country for "instant gratification" these days. The days of working your tail off to be successful seem to be mostly historical as kids these days honestly don't seem to get it that they're going to have to be the best and try their hardest to truly have success (in jobs/careers) in their life. Thus, I think the "laziness" comment has some validity, though it needs to be defined a little more closely. Kids will work hard to get things they want. Algebra and their education, overall, need to be shown as something to be worthy of the work and dedication required to succeed in them.

 

A lot of math seems abstract (to me anyway).

One problem that I see with not teaching algebra is what happens when you try to teach chemistry and physics?

Would algebra be taught not as a separate subject but as a part of a chemistry or physics course? Or would chemistry and physics be not taught as well?

Math is a necessary foundation for learning the sciences and engineering.

 

STFU all of you! Mr. Hacker...can count to FIVE!