Can A Plane Take Off On A Treadmill?
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 112,963
Likes: 150
From: Doh!!
Originally Posted by Lsos,Jan 31 2008, 10:32 AM
Yeah....
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/de/ws...plane_pull.html
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/record...ndividual).aspx
http://www.worldstrongmanentertainment.com/m_25.asp
I've never seen dinosaurs either....
Anyway, the reason they use tractors is because they want to move the thing in a reasonable time...and because it is, after all, the 21st century. We don't need to use people to tug 200 ton jets anymore. Nevertheless, my point remains: that the friction in the wheels of an airplane CAN be overcome by a human...and therefore probably also by the plane's 500,000hp engines.
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/de/ws...plane_pull.html
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/record...ndividual).aspx
http://www.worldstrongmanentertainment.com/m_25.asp
I've never seen dinosaurs either....
Anyway, the reason they use tractors is because they want to move the thing in a reasonable time...and because it is, after all, the 21st century. We don't need to use people to tug 200 ton jets anymore. Nevertheless, my point remains: that the friction in the wheels of an airplane CAN be overcome by a human...and therefore probably also by the plane's 500,000hp engines.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 1
From: Nuke this place, FL
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,712
Likes: 1
Wow....lol, there are some physics geniuses in here 
It all depends on the airplane's ground speed, not wheel speed. Once the airplane has achieved a high enough ground speed for the wings to produce enough lift to overcome the force of gravity acting on the airplane (it's weight).
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 10MPH, it won't take off as the ground speed of the aircraft is 0 knots and no lift will be produced.
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 11MPH, depending on the weight of the aircraft and the amount of lift the wings can provide in that 1MPH, it could or could not take off. 1MPH ground speed (I'm not interested in calculating the knots for that right now).
What's important is not who's right about it taking off or not, but that you understand why it can/cannot do so.
It all depends on the airplane's ground speed, not wheel speed. Once the airplane has achieved a high enough ground speed for the wings to produce enough lift to overcome the force of gravity acting on the airplane (it's weight).
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 10MPH, it won't take off as the ground speed of the aircraft is 0 knots and no lift will be produced.
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 11MPH, depending on the weight of the aircraft and the amount of lift the wings can provide in that 1MPH, it could or could not take off. 1MPH ground speed (I'm not interested in calculating the knots for that right now).
What's important is not who's right about it taking off or not, but that you understand why it can/cannot do so.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 1
From: Hollywood
so... i've been drinkin so lemme take another stab at this, though i thought this thread died a couple of weeks ago but y'all revived it.
i thought mythbusters and that 7 yr old kid proved this already. the airplanes engines don't move it's wheels. so, lets say there was a treadmill of unimaginable length that was able to move 50,000 mph and an airplane that needed 100mph to take off and was placed on that treadmill. the fact that the treadmill was moving 50,000 mph would not be enough force to stop the plane from taking off as the plane would eventually achieve its takeoff speed of 100mph on this treadmill. the treadmill's speed has little effect on the airplane's acheivable speed on any smooth flat surface as it only needs to overcome the little friction of the wheels which has been proven to be overcome by a man's grille which means if it is not enough to pull your tooth out, it won't stop the plane from eventually taking off.
so, i been drankin' so this is my last post here. i was really here to see who was playin cod4! the airstrike i call on you was from planes taking off from treadmills!!!
i thought mythbusters and that 7 yr old kid proved this already. the airplanes engines don't move it's wheels. so, lets say there was a treadmill of unimaginable length that was able to move 50,000 mph and an airplane that needed 100mph to take off and was placed on that treadmill. the fact that the treadmill was moving 50,000 mph would not be enough force to stop the plane from taking off as the plane would eventually achieve its takeoff speed of 100mph on this treadmill. the treadmill's speed has little effect on the airplane's acheivable speed on any smooth flat surface as it only needs to overcome the little friction of the wheels which has been proven to be overcome by a man's grille which means if it is not enough to pull your tooth out, it won't stop the plane from eventually taking off.
so, i been drankin' so this is my last post here. i was really here to see who was playin cod4! the airstrike i call on you was from planes taking off from treadmills!!!
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,076
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Florida
Originally Posted by Neutered Sputniks,Feb 10 2008, 05:39 AM
Wow....lol, there are some physics geniuses in here
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,712
Likes: 1
I never said the engine moves the wheels directly. It does provide the thrust.
Reread the post, guys.
I mentioned ground speed. Ground speed is what provides lift (air moving over the wings). Ground speed is aircraft movement relative to the ground, not the speed of the wheels. Unless it's a harrier, unless the aircraft is moving forward, there is no air flow over the wings, thus it doesn't fly.
I'd like to think that having worked on aircraft for 6 years or so I'd probably know something about the physics involved in making one fly.
Reread the post, guys.
I mentioned ground speed. Ground speed is what provides lift (air moving over the wings). Ground speed is aircraft movement relative to the ground, not the speed of the wheels. Unless it's a harrier, unless the aircraft is moving forward, there is no air flow over the wings, thus it doesn't fly.
I'd like to think that having worked on aircraft for 6 years or so I'd probably know something about the physics involved in making one fly.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
Originally Posted by Neutered Sputniks,Feb 10 2008, 05:39 AM
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 10MPH, it won't take off as the ground speed of the aircraft is 0 knots and no lift will be produced.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,323
Likes: 28
From: Longmont, CO
Sputniks, I'm sorry, but even with your experience of working on planes, you're still missing it.
If you feather the engine to produce just enough trust to move forward at 10mph, the plan will move forward at 10mph no matter what. Doesn't matter if the treadmill is stationary, moving backwards at 10mph, or even moving backwards at 10,000 mph.
[QUOTE]If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 11MPH, depending on the weight of the aircraft and the amount of lift the wings can provide in that 1MPH, it could or could not take off.
Originally Posted by Neutered Sputniks,Feb 10 2008, 04:39 AM
If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 10MPH, it won't take off as the ground speed of the aircraft is 0 knots and no lift will be produced.
[QUOTE]If you set an airplane on a treadmill and adjust the treadmill to 10MPH and feather the airplane's engine to only provide enough thrust to move it's wheels at 11MPH, depending on the weight of the aircraft and the amount of lift the wings can provide in that 1MPH, it could or could not take off.