M3 Rollover Pics... Ownage!
07-02-2003, 01:26 PM
#44
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Originally posted by JoeD
Sad indeed.
What's even more said is that if it was on a racetrack, most insurance companies would not cover it.
Sad indeed.
What's even more said is that if it was on a racetrack, most insurance companies would not cover it.
07-02-2003, 03:07 PM
#46
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I was riding in my brothers '97 2-door e36 M3 right behind that very car that day....it was really sad...we weren't close enough to see a play by play like those pics but when I saw the aftermath my stomach just sunk into my seat. I just didn't think something like that could happen at gingerman.
James
2001 spa yellow
James
2001 spa yellow
07-02-2003, 03:51 PM
#47
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wow, these photos finally surfaced on the net.
Anyway, I have a few comments.
For the race track, you should always have 4 points or more belt. The roof will always crush in. Most of the neck injury occurs when the body fall on the roof when your neck are still straight (not roof caves-in). When roof caves in, the car is already in a decelerate mode. (falling on its roof). and, the roof act as a damper to slow down the fall of the car. If you are in a minimum 4 point belt, you do not fall on the roof to begin with. You also have more room between your head and the roof, because your body is not falling. and, when roof does cave in to hit your head, your body is already locked in tight. and, you neck will get push to side (tilt you head). That motion is slower than falling on to the roof at whatever speed you were falling. If the roof falls too far, you are going to die either way. There won't be any belt that can save you.
I have several friends who were there that day. In my opinion, I think he lift in turn 8 entering turn 9. and, casue the car to spin (of course, he was speeding into turn 9). At that time, both feet in is not going to save you. If you put both feet in, you are just a passanger at that moment. He should have gone straight off the track. That stressed point that when in trouble, go straight off the track, then both feet in.
One last thing, to my understanding. He signed up the event as an intermediate student. Even though he only have 1 driving school under his belt. Per SpeedTrial's rule, intermediate student don't get an instructor. Obviously, these picture proven that he needs mroe work on the track.
anyway, these are just my $.02. My safety belt point of view come from a race engineer in GM who is responsible for a lot of safety harnesses in the industry and have lots of data about crash testing.
Anyway, I have a few comments.
For the race track, you should always have 4 points or more belt. The roof will always crush in. Most of the neck injury occurs when the body fall on the roof when your neck are still straight (not roof caves-in). When roof caves in, the car is already in a decelerate mode. (falling on its roof). and, the roof act as a damper to slow down the fall of the car. If you are in a minimum 4 point belt, you do not fall on the roof to begin with. You also have more room between your head and the roof, because your body is not falling. and, when roof does cave in to hit your head, your body is already locked in tight. and, you neck will get push to side (tilt you head). That motion is slower than falling on to the roof at whatever speed you were falling. If the roof falls too far, you are going to die either way. There won't be any belt that can save you.
I have several friends who were there that day. In my opinion, I think he lift in turn 8 entering turn 9. and, casue the car to spin (of course, he was speeding into turn 9). At that time, both feet in is not going to save you. If you put both feet in, you are just a passanger at that moment. He should have gone straight off the track. That stressed point that when in trouble, go straight off the track, then both feet in.
One last thing, to my understanding. He signed up the event as an intermediate student. Even though he only have 1 driving school under his belt. Per SpeedTrial's rule, intermediate student don't get an instructor. Obviously, these picture proven that he needs mroe work on the track.
anyway, these are just my $.02. My safety belt point of view come from a race engineer in GM who is responsible for a lot of safety harnesses in the industry and have lots of data about crash testing.
07-03-2003, 02:23 PM
#48
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G'day Perry!
Long time no speak old buddy! How's things? Good to see you finally got that M3 you were lusting after! You'll have to take me for a ride someday!
Agree with all your points except a slight difference of opinion on the last point! I agree that he shouldn't have signed up as an intermediate, but as for needing more experience 'cause he rolled, you and I both know perfectly well that even the pro's can get it all crossed up, and yes, even.......roll!
If the track outskirts were a little wet or heavy, rather than slide, his wheels likely dug in. That will happen to almost any car, M3 or otherwise. As you said, both feet in at that stage make you a passenger only, but things like that can and do happen to the best of us.......even those that have a lot of race schooling, track time and race time.
I've gone off at Sandown (track in Victoria, Australia), sideways at 150km/h (about 95mph) - my racing line was stolen by another more capable car than my own - rather than hit him, I had nowhere to go but off! I was purely a passenger then too, and it could just have easily turned real bad for me too! Luckily, I shaved enough speed off and my Miata didn't roll by the time my wheels started digging for China. Moved about 400lbs of sod and grass about 12feet infield though!!!
It was too heavy to lift back into place!
You and I have both driven Gingerman so we know the track pretty well. I don't think either of us have ever come close to stuffing it there.....that's what the gravel traps are for! You do have to be doing some speed there to have a bad off like that!!!
Hope all is ok with the guy. I feel for him.
Cheers!
Long time no speak old buddy! How's things? Good to see you finally got that M3 you were lusting after! You'll have to take me for a ride someday!
Agree with all your points except a slight difference of opinion on the last point! I agree that he shouldn't have signed up as an intermediate, but as for needing more experience 'cause he rolled, you and I both know perfectly well that even the pro's can get it all crossed up, and yes, even.......roll!
If the track outskirts were a little wet or heavy, rather than slide, his wheels likely dug in. That will happen to almost any car, M3 or otherwise. As you said, both feet in at that stage make you a passenger only, but things like that can and do happen to the best of us.......even those that have a lot of race schooling, track time and race time.
I've gone off at Sandown (track in Victoria, Australia), sideways at 150km/h (about 95mph) - my racing line was stolen by another more capable car than my own - rather than hit him, I had nowhere to go but off! I was purely a passenger then too, and it could just have easily turned real bad for me too! Luckily, I shaved enough speed off and my Miata didn't roll by the time my wheels started digging for China. Moved about 400lbs of sod and grass about 12feet infield though!!!
It was too heavy to lift back into place!You and I have both driven Gingerman so we know the track pretty well. I don't think either of us have ever come close to stuffing it there.....that's what the gravel traps are for! You do have to be doing some speed there to have a bad off like that!!!
Hope all is ok with the guy. I feel for him.
Cheers!