Um, yeah. I have a job, I am not whining about my position, I am talking about the inane comments people make in support of a process that they don't fully grasp. If a guy goes to machinist's school and becomes a machinist, and then their employer lays them off in favor of getting the machining done in China, what should that guy do? Go to school for, oh, waste management? Get his MBA? Who is going to pay for his education? GW Bush just approved an education initiative to train more people with federal money. Where does that money come from? How can this program be funded if people's wages are falling, and their tax contribution is declining? The only way to raise federal funding is through taxation, and since Republicans balk at raising taxes for the groups that benefit most from government programs - corporations and the top wage earners, it means that the middle and lower classes will pay more in taxes to fund programs made necessary by the desire of the upper class to put more money in the bank. One doesn't have to be dirt poor to see that this is BS for the bulk of the nation.

 

Good thread guys, I just took an MBA international marketing class last Q and we talked so much about that topic.

Facts are: The U.S. is soon to be a serivce nation who just provides services. Take a look around you, what now is made in the U.S.? Not a whole lot, even Kodak is discontinuing its little 35mm cameras, and I belive Fuji? or another asian camera company is taking that over. TVs, cellphones, comps on and and on.
The global power will be China soon. By 2020 their GDP will be higher than the U.S. and is currently growing at enormous rates. The EU is also growing tremondously.

On the steel issue. Steel is cheap, the only reason why the steel industry is alive is because we subsidize them so much which in the end isn't fair to the end consumers. Korea, China all produce mass steal for so cheap that would rock the prices off of U.S. steel.

This is the 21st century, (hope I don't sound to harsh) but to be sucessful these days you must be adaptable. Just because you get a college degree doesn't mean your guranteed a particluar job in that certain field. Train in something else, get more experiance, go get your masters, but in the end you must be flexible and willing to work alot of diffrent jobs. One skill or speciality doesn't cut it anymore.

to the poster above me: Don't make it political. I could easily say that since John Kerry and his wife own the Heinz ketchup corporation its kind of hypocritical that they outsourced over 60% of the jobs overseas and are getting out of the U.S.

 

Silverknight: Yes, let's not get political or a good thread will be locked. I'm sorry I got personal, and I apologize for my rude remarks.

I think everyone agrees that outsourcing of some services such as IT support, basic accounting, basic financials, basic consumer phone support, etc. will eventually all be outsourced - whether we like it or not, this trend will stay. The politicians can say all they want about creating jobs or training people with tax dollars, but the bottom line really lies in a simple phrase: Adapt or Die (with a picture of a dead dinosaur). Our country will concentrate more and more on services, innovation, design, and other things that would require heavy set of knowledge base and know-how.

BTW, FOREIGN trained MBAs are in high demand in Asia, especially in China. I've met many ex-pats in China who graduated from top, 2nd tier, or even 3rd tier B-schools being paid very well. One of the reasons is our education system promotes free thinking and individualism, and this creates a unique persona that is required in a mid-high level management position, especially in international business. So if you like Asian food and Asian girls, go get an MBA and move to Shanghai

 

The thing is guys, the countries that are taking most of the customer service and repetitive labour are 2nd and third world countries that dont have to abide by the same conditions as other countries such as Australia and the US. Im not referring to sweat shops and the like, but more general stuff like general work conditions, entitlements, OH&S, EH&S, award wages, taxes..... the list goes on.

I totally understand what you're saying about adapting to the market and being dynamic in your job role, but the thing is that the buck must stop somewhere. I dont mean to sound like a politician but I believe that its a case of letting the public get comfortable without the lower tiers of the corporation then we take the next lowest and so on it erodes away due to the sole focus on efficiency and the disregard of any social aspects and environmental conditions.

Another thing to keep in mind is that these countries like as india are severely divided in their class structure with no middle class to speak of. The vast majority of citizens live in poverty and then there are the upper class who exploit their corrupt government into suiting their particular wants and needs so that they can deliver these unmatchable prices.

In a cynical way, this is the direction that I see globalisation taking our countries and I pray that something like triple bottom line accounting can be seen as a valuable approach otherwise there will be no sustainability of resources taken into consideration.

"Only when the last river has been poisoned, only when the last field has been dried out, only after the last animal has been slaughtered, will people realise that money cannot be eaten."

 

One thing you have to also remember is that our perception of what is ideal situation and living/working condition can be different than a person from say India, Vietnam, China, or any other country. Just because we "demand" a certain style of living here, i believe someone from a "third" world country would be happy to earn for the entire year, what we earn in a week, or month.

 

We have a project in Bangladesh, we pay the standard wage in the area for labour which is around US$40 per month.

How many people does anyone here know that would work 9 hour days, 6 days a week, doing very physical work for something like $0.20 per hour?

That is the sort of competition that the developed nations are facing at the moment.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really

 

Forgot to add this. My professor actually gave us a few lectures on "sweathshops" etc. My view before this was sweatshops and making 3rd world countries working at low wages was unhuman etc. This wasn't fair though since I had not read any books or research and just listend to what the mainstream media was saying before this.

I did find out that many 3rd world countries and its citizens badly want us to come over there. The wage we pay them over there which might be a few bucks a day is still more than they could ever earn before we planted shops. Our business brings money to the government, families, and we usually modernize that town or village that the company sets foot in.
The point being our standard of living is considerably higher and that 3 dollars a day is again much higher than what they would have been making. That 3 dollars a day would be like us making $50-100 a day. I'm not in favor of sweatshops at all but its nice to know some different views on this subject.
Don't panic on outsourcing. The main jobs that will be gone from us are call centers and engineers. There are still jobs here but again be flexible.
One more thing, read the "Road Ahead" Bill gates. Very very interesting espicially you business people MBAs out there. You wonder why he went to China this past year? Millions of smart engineers waiting to be hired. The problem is the copyright violations and piracy in that country. He has lost millions upon millions in China.