For the person with the thread about Gran Turismo 3...
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January 07, 2003 - While Sony Computer Entertainment America's excellent Gran Turismo 3: A-spec is generally considered one of the best, if not the best, racing game ever, beauty (and games) is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever your preferences, Gran Turismo 3 is considered the benchmark against which all racing games are compared.
By now, most gamers have played GT3 to death; they've beaten every race and even earned a Gold trophy in every single license test. But after having played the game today, isn't it time to take another look at Gran Turismo 3? I mean, is it really the best racing game ever? Or even a better question, is it truly a comprehensive and believable "driving simulator?"
Taking the chance that we might start an avalanche of hate mail, we must say that GT3 isn't the perfect racer, it may not be the best racer ever, and it may not even be the best "driving simulator" either. Our very own driving "expert" driver Tyrone Rodriguez compares GT3's performance versus real racecar driving. But before you kick us in the nuts, call us delusional and bust out the noose and lynch us, give us a bit of time to convince you with another side of the story.
The Real Feel
If you've ever gone racing (and no, illegal street racing doesn't count, it's not even a real race) on the track, you'll know one of the most important aspects of driving is road feedback. No matter if you drive a Daihatsu Charade or a Dodge Viper, feedback will help determine how far you can push the car. When you press against the clutch pedal, opening up the shift gate, and place the shifter in first and slowly (or in some cases, not so slowly) depress the throttle and release the clutch pedal, it's all feeling. This is true even if you're simply pulling out of a driveway or local mall -- feeling is what guides you to drive the car. On a more advanced level, road feedback is very evident when dropping in hot and cutting the apex. Between the feeling of Gs at the seat of your pants and the sensation of all four tires at maximum grip you'll know if the vehicle can be pushed any further or if you need to let off the throttle.
Another very essential part of hard driving is the sensation of speed. When entering the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca it's not really necessary to look at the speedometer -- you "know" if you're going to fast or not. If the speed is to high, you'll hit the brakes, do a bit of heel and toe dropping it down a gear or two to enter the deadly twist at a proper speed. This sensation of speed, or lack there of, by far is the most important aspect of any racing game. Several games that provided excellent examples of a sense of speed include Electronic Arts most recent F1 2002, Sega's Super GT, Ridge Racer 5, the first WipEout (in the later Rapier and Piranha levels) and even Sega's Racing Jam had its moments.
--------- end page 1
Like most racing games before it, GT3 doesn't give a solid sensation of speed. Instead, more advanced players will quickly glance at the tachometer to see what gear the game recommends for the turn and at the speedometer to see their current velocity. Even when a turn is properly executed there isn't that feeling of success, it's just out of the way. You don't feel your tires losing grip, the car's weight shifting from side to side, you don't even feel your butt move from the Gs -- it's all visual, there is little feel involved in the whole process. And even Logitech's ultra cool GT steering wheel can't re-create what we're talking about. Most weekend track drivers will agree on this topic.
GT3 lacks the "oomph" of games like Konami's Racing Jam or Capcom's Auto Modellista (which we know hasn't actually come out yet). Why? Well, aside from the obvious, "It doesn't look/feel like we're going fast," GT3 has no real vision cues to heighten the sensation of increased velocity. Racing Jam, for instance, is played entirely on a concave projection screen. Along with a bit of motion blur from the screen, the concave nature of it gives the stuff on the side of the screen a sort of fish-eye feel. Auto Modellista went a step further by adding contrails, skid lines and actually skewing the view. This works well in generally, but can cause nausea on some of the touge tracks. While we're not asking that GT3 or GT4 go the showy "bling, bling" route of the two aforementioned games, it does need to do something to increase the adrenaline. Even minor changes such as a real feeling of a turbo kicking in (as in Pro Race Driver), that just doesn't happen at all; every vehicle feels like a naturally aspirated machine, even if you're driving a Supra or another forced induction ride.
Part of the reason that the game might not feel that fast overall is that the first vehicles available aren't that fast and by the time you earn some speed demon rides you've slowly gotten used to the increased speeds. It's a quandary, speed up the slow vehicles to get players into the game initially or just make the later vehicles faster. Even if Polyphony did make the slower vehicles look faster, the faster vehicles would look way too fast.
Real World Physics
Once players get past the whole feeling issue and manage to delve head first into the world of GT3 then there is the world of physics with which to contend. While we'll be the first to tell you that GT3 has the second best physics of any console racer to date (Sega's Ferrari F-355 being the best), the physics engine is still lacking. Even today's 128-bit monster consoles still can't handle a true physics model, just ask most programmers. A true, fully functioning physics engine would consume ALL the memory and be nothing more than a text-based graph-like interface to let us know what's going on.
------------- end page 2
With that said, Polyphony and most other developers have to cut corners to give the vehicles and world an authentic feel without sacrificing too much. We'll hand it to GT3 that the cars generally handle like most should. However, but I doubt that even Polyphony created more than one physics model for the game. In fact, we'd bet that every car uses the same physics model, modified slightly to more appropriately represent the car's attributes such as engine-position, drive train, power to weight ratio etc. Which is exactly why Sega's Ferrari F355 is so stunning in the physics department. Yu Suzuki had only one vehicle to worry about; GT3's Yamauchi-san had over one hundred to re-create.
Here are a few reasons where GT3's physics engine could improve. First, cars won't flip, and the three-point physics system (X, Y, Z axes) is limited to pretty much two-points (X, Y -- not much verticality, Z). Second, the game doesn't provide realistic vehicle collisions, well, OK, doesn't provide any real vehicle collisions at all. You can bash into any other car and not a lick of damage will ever be seen. Lastly, the way that the terrain interacts with the cars is not only inconsistent, but strange. Grass and dirt feel like the tarmac except they have different friction attributes, you'll slide more on these surfaces, but you won't experience much else.
As we stated, the cars generally handle as they should, but they're not that much different from one another. In reality, the reason that the game handles the way is does is because the design team probably felt A) that's what the cars basically handle like, B) that's what most people think they feel like and C) any more realistic and people would be spinning out at ever turn and straight (Driving Emotion Type S, anyone?).
Is it Truly Artificial Intelligence?
Oooh, AI the evil, evil Artificial Intelligence -- actually, a better terminology would be "enemy behavior" because the GT3 computer-driven vehicles are anything but intelligent. Once again, if any readers have ever been to a track or racing event, we all know that there are rules, which should be followed for the sake of the sport and for the safety of the drivers. GT3 cars apparently aren't school in racing etiquette. Should you be in the lead, entering a corner with an AI driver behind yet near you, expect to lose your lead. Not only will the AI driver not slow down to the proper entry speed, it will practically aim for your vehicle. This is totally unacceptable, for a realistic racer. For this true "driving simulator" the person responsible for coding or scripting the AI behavior should have created a model that would make racing fun for those of us who drive on a real track -- not the destruction derby. Assuming that the AI was designed for most people, who would play the game like bumper cars, there should be a mode that allows for more refined AI driving, but as is, GT3 drivers are nothing more than roadside thugs.
-------------------end page 3
The AI will also show how dirty it is in the straights. Try to bump an AI-driven car off its recommended race line and see what happens. The damn thing won't budge; you could be slamming against a Ford Festiva with a Hummer H2 and you still wouldn't be able to break the vehicle off its predetermined path. The only instance an AI vehicle can be taken out is in the twisty stuff. Anytime you enter a corner, look for a nearby AI vehicle, use it to "soften" the turn. Not only will you keep traction, but you'll actually maintain speed throughout the turn and likely earn an advance upon exit. Sad, but it sure is fun to do.
Complex Modifications
Our last grievance with GT3 is its mod system. Sure, it's cool to port and polish your engine and purchase fully height and damper adjustable coilover suspension systems, but first what does this all mean to most people and, secondly, if you do understand what it means, how does it affect gameplay? On an even deeper level, why aren't the mods as specific as they should be? You may be lightening the weight of the car, but in what method? Are you changing from a steel unibody to a carbon fiber monocoque? Are you gutting the interior, carpet, seating area and unnecessary amenities like radio and air conditioning? It just doesn't say. We were really disappointed with the way the turbo upgrade system works. It is a ball-bearing turbo? Is it a Turbonetics, a Garett or a euro-spec K series turbocharger? What size slug are you getting on the turbine side and on the compressor side? Most of these questions are a big, "I dunno." This isn't what we'd expect from the best racing game ever. There is so much left to chance and unanswered in this portion of GT3 that we could spend days asking "where is this?" and "why is this like this?," but we're sure you're starting to get the picture.
In The End
In the end, GT3 remains one of the best console racers of all time; we can't take that away from it. But for what the game claims to be -- a "driving simulator" -- it's definitely not. We don't mean to be wet towels, but when push comes to shove GT3 just isn't a true driving simulator; far from it. Chances are if you try to do half of the stuff you pull in GT3 on a real track you'll probably be acquainted with the safety walls real quick.
-- Tyrone Rodriguez
-------- end page 4
-------- end article
taken from PS2.ign.com without permission, posted only for public knowledge, not profit motivation
By now, most gamers have played GT3 to death; they've beaten every race and even earned a Gold trophy in every single license test. But after having played the game today, isn't it time to take another look at Gran Turismo 3? I mean, is it really the best racing game ever? Or even a better question, is it truly a comprehensive and believable "driving simulator?"
Taking the chance that we might start an avalanche of hate mail, we must say that GT3 isn't the perfect racer, it may not be the best racer ever, and it may not even be the best "driving simulator" either. Our very own driving "expert" driver Tyrone Rodriguez compares GT3's performance versus real racecar driving. But before you kick us in the nuts, call us delusional and bust out the noose and lynch us, give us a bit of time to convince you with another side of the story.
The Real Feel
If you've ever gone racing (and no, illegal street racing doesn't count, it's not even a real race) on the track, you'll know one of the most important aspects of driving is road feedback. No matter if you drive a Daihatsu Charade or a Dodge Viper, feedback will help determine how far you can push the car. When you press against the clutch pedal, opening up the shift gate, and place the shifter in first and slowly (or in some cases, not so slowly) depress the throttle and release the clutch pedal, it's all feeling. This is true even if you're simply pulling out of a driveway or local mall -- feeling is what guides you to drive the car. On a more advanced level, road feedback is very evident when dropping in hot and cutting the apex. Between the feeling of Gs at the seat of your pants and the sensation of all four tires at maximum grip you'll know if the vehicle can be pushed any further or if you need to let off the throttle.
Another very essential part of hard driving is the sensation of speed. When entering the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca it's not really necessary to look at the speedometer -- you "know" if you're going to fast or not. If the speed is to high, you'll hit the brakes, do a bit of heel and toe dropping it down a gear or two to enter the deadly twist at a proper speed. This sensation of speed, or lack there of, by far is the most important aspect of any racing game. Several games that provided excellent examples of a sense of speed include Electronic Arts most recent F1 2002, Sega's Super GT, Ridge Racer 5, the first WipEout (in the later Rapier and Piranha levels) and even Sega's Racing Jam had its moments.
--------- end page 1
Like most racing games before it, GT3 doesn't give a solid sensation of speed. Instead, more advanced players will quickly glance at the tachometer to see what gear the game recommends for the turn and at the speedometer to see their current velocity. Even when a turn is properly executed there isn't that feeling of success, it's just out of the way. You don't feel your tires losing grip, the car's weight shifting from side to side, you don't even feel your butt move from the Gs -- it's all visual, there is little feel involved in the whole process. And even Logitech's ultra cool GT steering wheel can't re-create what we're talking about. Most weekend track drivers will agree on this topic.
GT3 lacks the "oomph" of games like Konami's Racing Jam or Capcom's Auto Modellista (which we know hasn't actually come out yet). Why? Well, aside from the obvious, "It doesn't look/feel like we're going fast," GT3 has no real vision cues to heighten the sensation of increased velocity. Racing Jam, for instance, is played entirely on a concave projection screen. Along with a bit of motion blur from the screen, the concave nature of it gives the stuff on the side of the screen a sort of fish-eye feel. Auto Modellista went a step further by adding contrails, skid lines and actually skewing the view. This works well in generally, but can cause nausea on some of the touge tracks. While we're not asking that GT3 or GT4 go the showy "bling, bling" route of the two aforementioned games, it does need to do something to increase the adrenaline. Even minor changes such as a real feeling of a turbo kicking in (as in Pro Race Driver), that just doesn't happen at all; every vehicle feels like a naturally aspirated machine, even if you're driving a Supra or another forced induction ride.
Part of the reason that the game might not feel that fast overall is that the first vehicles available aren't that fast and by the time you earn some speed demon rides you've slowly gotten used to the increased speeds. It's a quandary, speed up the slow vehicles to get players into the game initially or just make the later vehicles faster. Even if Polyphony did make the slower vehicles look faster, the faster vehicles would look way too fast.
Real World Physics
Once players get past the whole feeling issue and manage to delve head first into the world of GT3 then there is the world of physics with which to contend. While we'll be the first to tell you that GT3 has the second best physics of any console racer to date (Sega's Ferrari F-355 being the best), the physics engine is still lacking. Even today's 128-bit monster consoles still can't handle a true physics model, just ask most programmers. A true, fully functioning physics engine would consume ALL the memory and be nothing more than a text-based graph-like interface to let us know what's going on.
------------- end page 2
With that said, Polyphony and most other developers have to cut corners to give the vehicles and world an authentic feel without sacrificing too much. We'll hand it to GT3 that the cars generally handle like most should. However, but I doubt that even Polyphony created more than one physics model for the game. In fact, we'd bet that every car uses the same physics model, modified slightly to more appropriately represent the car's attributes such as engine-position, drive train, power to weight ratio etc. Which is exactly why Sega's Ferrari F355 is so stunning in the physics department. Yu Suzuki had only one vehicle to worry about; GT3's Yamauchi-san had over one hundred to re-create.
Here are a few reasons where GT3's physics engine could improve. First, cars won't flip, and the three-point physics system (X, Y, Z axes) is limited to pretty much two-points (X, Y -- not much verticality, Z). Second, the game doesn't provide realistic vehicle collisions, well, OK, doesn't provide any real vehicle collisions at all. You can bash into any other car and not a lick of damage will ever be seen. Lastly, the way that the terrain interacts with the cars is not only inconsistent, but strange. Grass and dirt feel like the tarmac except they have different friction attributes, you'll slide more on these surfaces, but you won't experience much else.
As we stated, the cars generally handle as they should, but they're not that much different from one another. In reality, the reason that the game handles the way is does is because the design team probably felt A) that's what the cars basically handle like, B) that's what most people think they feel like and C) any more realistic and people would be spinning out at ever turn and straight (Driving Emotion Type S, anyone?).
Is it Truly Artificial Intelligence?
Oooh, AI the evil, evil Artificial Intelligence -- actually, a better terminology would be "enemy behavior" because the GT3 computer-driven vehicles are anything but intelligent. Once again, if any readers have ever been to a track or racing event, we all know that there are rules, which should be followed for the sake of the sport and for the safety of the drivers. GT3 cars apparently aren't school in racing etiquette. Should you be in the lead, entering a corner with an AI driver behind yet near you, expect to lose your lead. Not only will the AI driver not slow down to the proper entry speed, it will practically aim for your vehicle. This is totally unacceptable, for a realistic racer. For this true "driving simulator" the person responsible for coding or scripting the AI behavior should have created a model that would make racing fun for those of us who drive on a real track -- not the destruction derby. Assuming that the AI was designed for most people, who would play the game like bumper cars, there should be a mode that allows for more refined AI driving, but as is, GT3 drivers are nothing more than roadside thugs.
-------------------end page 3
The AI will also show how dirty it is in the straights. Try to bump an AI-driven car off its recommended race line and see what happens. The damn thing won't budge; you could be slamming against a Ford Festiva with a Hummer H2 and you still wouldn't be able to break the vehicle off its predetermined path. The only instance an AI vehicle can be taken out is in the twisty stuff. Anytime you enter a corner, look for a nearby AI vehicle, use it to "soften" the turn. Not only will you keep traction, but you'll actually maintain speed throughout the turn and likely earn an advance upon exit. Sad, but it sure is fun to do.
Complex Modifications
Our last grievance with GT3 is its mod system. Sure, it's cool to port and polish your engine and purchase fully height and damper adjustable coilover suspension systems, but first what does this all mean to most people and, secondly, if you do understand what it means, how does it affect gameplay? On an even deeper level, why aren't the mods as specific as they should be? You may be lightening the weight of the car, but in what method? Are you changing from a steel unibody to a carbon fiber monocoque? Are you gutting the interior, carpet, seating area and unnecessary amenities like radio and air conditioning? It just doesn't say. We were really disappointed with the way the turbo upgrade system works. It is a ball-bearing turbo? Is it a Turbonetics, a Garett or a euro-spec K series turbocharger? What size slug are you getting on the turbine side and on the compressor side? Most of these questions are a big, "I dunno." This isn't what we'd expect from the best racing game ever. There is so much left to chance and unanswered in this portion of GT3 that we could spend days asking "where is this?" and "why is this like this?," but we're sure you're starting to get the picture.
In The End
In the end, GT3 remains one of the best console racers of all time; we can't take that away from it. But for what the game claims to be -- a "driving simulator" -- it's definitely not. We don't mean to be wet towels, but when push comes to shove GT3 just isn't a true driving simulator; far from it. Chances are if you try to do half of the stuff you pull in GT3 on a real track you'll probably be acquainted with the safety walls real quick.
-- Tyrone Rodriguez
-------- end page 4
-------- end article
taken from PS2.ign.com without permission, posted only for public knowledge, not profit motivation
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