You do not know how much I appreciate all of this advice. This is excactly what I am looking for. Especially the views from Luder94 and cyber_x. I was talking to my son about finding the right road to success. I told him of the S2000 site and the wealth of knowlege I find here. I told him he would be amazed at the responce we would get if we asked. You all have proven me correct.
As you can tell I am very proud of my son, Ken. He absolutely loves working on computers. He took a programing class a couple of years ago and began making his own games. He had his own web site about 3 or 4 years ago. A couple of weeks ago I was having problems with my home computer, he had it fixed in no time. I enjoy watching him work through the problems as if to outsmart the computer.
Please keep the responses coming. Thanks to all. Jack

 

The advice of getting some business education is very good advice. It's funny but of all of the Programmers and DBA's at my company only a hand full have degrees and I don't think any of them are in CS. I know we have 3 history majors, 2 Electrical Engineers and 2 english majors among those with degrees as well as a couple of MBAs. I would recommend project management courses no matter what kind of degree.

 

Pretty much any science/technical degree combined with a business degree (or perhaps a minor in business) is a very attractive combination for a company looking to hire. That said, soft skills are SUPER important and often the actual education is not nearly so important. I have been in class with people that were so smart they were stupid - they could do super tough problems out of a book but couldn't give a presentation or deal with a group of people effectively.

I would suggest that, if possible, your son do a cooperative program. Get a few internships while he's doing his degree and he'll come out with not only a degree but also some experience to boot. I've got two semesters left in my engineering degree and I will graduate with over three years of work experience (six four-month internships plus a one year contract when I took a year off). That alone means that I'm well ahead of a lot of graduate engineers and I have had offers of jobs already (with a year to go before graduation). I don't have fantastic grades, I just have decent ones with common sense and experience, plus good soft skills. Experience will sell a person a lot more than good grades, in my experience. I actually spoke with someone that works in HR and management and they said they will oftimes TURN PEOPLE AWAY that have excellent marks (this is for an engineering company) because they tend to be very ineffective workers in a team. Not to say "get merely good marks", only to say that marks very rarely get a person a job - experience and soft skills tend to overrule marks.

Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth.

 

I always turn down people with CS degrees who have little or no real-world experience. To me a degree is meaningless. I like people who take the initiative to learn all they need to know and have the ability to learn anything quickly. I have entered none of my programming jobs with knowledge of the language the company uses, but always leave with my boss saying I'm the best xxxx coder he's ever seen. I expect nothing less from my employees. From what you said it seems he's developing a love for the machine, which is good, but an ability to think outside of academic standards of knowledge (which frequently are different from the real world) counts for much more in my book.

I'd say to have him join some open source projects or start one of his own. Being able to produce independently is a very strong skill to have, especially if balanced with some team development experience. With production experience like this, you start to meet people in the industry. Experience + networking = job.

boughtans2k has good advice...if he already has strong computing skills, why not spend time in school learning something different? If I could start over I would've taken a business degree instead of EE.

my $.02 as a 23yo college dropout that is getting another raise and promotion this month.

 

Extra stuff outside of college is good too, like unix/windows administration, as many certifications as possible. Most important is internships, lots of them for the real world experience. During college I interned for Texas Instruments here in Dallas and they offered me a position last year 3 months before my graduation with a salary in the 60s. I was an MIS grad from U of Texas.

 

Thanks again for all of your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Luder94, cyber_x and Unabageler couldn't put it in a better way!

I graduated with a Management Information Systems degree in 97 when the market was going up and up. I went with this degree after doing a HS internship at IBM at the time. I had a few IBM'ers that I looked up to that advised me to get a degree in MIS. Not Computer Science Degree, why, well it would give the business background that above posters referred too and still keep my interest in computers.

From reading what you described about your son, it felt as if you were describing me 10 years ago. I loved computers and like to tinker with them. But as I've learned through various internships that companies don't hire you for the flavor of the month programming skills, that is what india and china is for, they hire you for your enthusiasm, problem solving, prioritization skills - SOFT SKILLS that you get through experience and determination.

I am currently finishing up my MBA studies, again in Business and started a new direction at work utilizing Process Improvement Methodologies. I am studying up for my BlackBelt certification in Six Sigma for those of you that know what I am talking about. Process Improvement is the next revolution to hit the business world - something to consider.

Well what's my status you ask?? I've been through the ups and now through the downs. Seen many of my co-workers laid off. I still am that little engine that could, by maneuvering my way through various jobs in IT and its safe to say that I am here to stay.

Pluses:
MIS degree (accredited school)
Internships
Read Industry Literature (Info week, CIO, Knowledge Mgmt) for business trends in IT
Consulting Job after Graduation (BIG ++ in my case)

End Result: S in the garage and $$$ to go on vacation with the ladies.

Good Luck on your sons career path, XLER8R

 

Oh yeah almost forgot... recent 10% raise and 15% bonus!!! in this economy...

 

From what most of you say, internship is very important. How does one go about securing that. Is it a right place at the right time kind of thing. With todays econemy are internships still readily available.

 

Most companies that take interns will have an internship program in place. Check out their different websites to see who is and isn't running an internship program. Even if they aren't running an internship program, one can still go talk to someone.

Paid internships are, naturally, the nicest thing to have but doing an unpaid internship more than pays for itself in the long run.

I am finishing up my engineering degree (six year program) and I have done five of six internships already. It's not always easy getting one (for some people), but most companies are ready to take on a student since they a) are much cheaper than "regular" employees, b) are readily available, c) don't require full-time, guaranteed employment except for a few months, d) give the employer a chance to "check out" a person without committing seriously.

As to how to go about securing one, as I said, checking out websites is the first thing. If that doesn't work, call up someone in HR in the company and speak to them about it. Try and secure a face-to-face discussion with someone if at all possible. You can also send resumes with a cover letter explaining that you'd like to intern with them, then do a follow-up call later on. Basically, do it as if you were looking for a full-time job.... That simple!

Good luck to your son.