I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, but might not take part in the discussion, for reasons I spelled out above. It's a lot easier (and more meaningful) to discuss theory (and practice) when we don't have so many independent variables.

Even with something as simple as sharpening a knife, we find a variety of theories and methods, and the theories exist because the methods that are derived from them work well for some people. I have found that by grinding a 20-degree relife, and a 22.5-degree secondary edge, followed by a honed 25-degree primary edge, I can get almost any steel sharp enough to shave with, and that with these angles all but the softest (mild) steels the edges remain sharp for a very long time. It's not just a theory to say that the method works for me, because that's really an established fact. Knife and edge "experts" may (and do) argue endlessly over their theories, but I won't, because I have a method that works perfectly, every time, so for me, there's nothing to argue about. Even if someone else finds that they get entirely different results using the angles and methods I use, that doesn't change the fact that it works for me.

Dealing with others (kids or adults) is the same way, only far more complex. Theory is great, and interesting in it's own right, but from experience, I know what works for me; The same approach might or might not work for someone else.

Every knife in our home has an edge that is sharp enough to shave with. We also have a very sharp 19 year old, who is respectful of others, and fully expects the same in return. A good knife comes from the factory with a razor sharp edge, and it will stay razor sharp until the owner does something to dull the edge. Kids come from the factory with a predisposition to see their parents as perfect, and their respect for their parents is initially unbounded. That respect remains until something happens to damage it. Knives get dull with use, and kids learn that their parents aren't perfect after all, but it is possible to make a dull knife sharp again, and it is possible for kids to respect their parents in spite of their flaws. When the knife is dull or the kids are disrespectful, who's to blame?

 

I find psychology absolutely fascinating, especially focusing on the developmental persuasion. Perhaps that's as a result of the amount of time I spent working and playing with kids through my teenage years and into my early 20s.

Personally, I blame the item that was cut for dulling the blade, but that's an inevitability if the knife is being put use I would say it is definitely the responsibility of the parents to put in some guidelines, then remember that there are certain acts that can be expected of their kids when an understanding of why they took place. That's not to say excuse their actions, but to not take them personally as a sign of disrespect because it's not the intention. As you said, it's a test to gauge boundaries and perception, among other things.

I should've phrased it better when I referred to agreeing in theory, but disagreeing in practice. You hit the nail on the head though in terms of realizing I only meant I disagree in my experience, not that it hasn't played out that way in yours


Back-on-topic(ish):

I think there's a bit of a double standard from time to time on this forum where we expect people to be respectful and act like they should in person (with respect), but always expect to be able to express ourselves with anonymity and the ability to just say whatever is on our minds.

If anyone needs me, I'm leaving my room at my parents house and drifting my S on bald tires to the local performance shop where I'm getting a turbo installed because this platform is outdated and I want more out of my first rear-wheel-drive car.

 

[QUOTE=MikeyCB,Jan 21 2008, 06:15 PM]I find psychology absolutely fascinating, especially focusing on the developmental persuasion.

 

You forgot the "Convince my mom to buy me a S2000" thread

 

I once got flamed for suggesting that destroking would reduce the piston speed.

 

That's mad speak. Almost as blasphemous as suggesting a 2JZ swap. Wonder why the LSx swaps are drumming up so much interest?

 

I have no idea. The F20C was one of the (many) things that convinced me that I wanted to own an S2000, so I have a hard time imagining swapping it out for something else. I don't think I'm any less impressed by the little engine now than when I first learned about it. In fact, I think I've become more impressed as I've learned more about it. Not that the world isn't full of imprssive engines, but the F20C is unique in ways that I find highly appealing.

 

What?! You don't like my one-wheel drive V8 powered S2000?

 

I still think that humans are fundamentally animals.

To that end, you can "respect" a cow all you want. But no matter how much it likes you... sometimes you need a prod if you want it to do something.

I'm not saying that this is behavior to strive for, but just taking the extreme example that sometimes respect and niceties can't overcome the most raw human / animal impulses.

Drugs / alcohol / sex / rage... these are not necessarily "rational" states and "like" may not have much pull. People can know they're doing the wrong thing, feel bad for it... but still be compelled to do it.

Same thing for kids and hierarchy. Some dogs and most wolves have an ingrained pack mentality of rank. If you show your belly, they'll go for the throat. They may "like" you, but they'll still try to take over the pack... and take the chance to dominate you.

With something so fundamental that it's hard wired in mammalian cousins... I throw out there for discussion that there are people who have this urge more strongly than others. They take advantage of weakness and capitalize on it. And no amount of "talking" to them is going to overcome their innate compulsion.

Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Hoarding behaviors. Some of this is thought to be rooted in nesting and gathering behaviors. In a very ancient part of the brain. You can't just tell someone with OCD NOT to do what they do. You can try and it may help, but you're fighting the wiring and you're going to lose a good percent of the time.

I'm not saying that anyone in particular is like that on s2ki.com and I'm not saying this should apply to most kids (or adults).

But sometimes I think we take too much faith in what we can change with rationalization and casual psychotherapy.

 

what about, should I buy an s2000?