This thread isn't about those who legitimately need help. This thread is about the net that catches the lazy. The person who is completely able physically and geographically to make it on their own, yet has no incentive to do so because the government gives them section 8 housing, free 80

 

zeiss, I agree with everything you wrote. On principle at least.

One thing about the MI-IN-OH auto belt is that there is a large group of people with a sense of entitlement that comes from decades of working in high paying union jobs. A lot of those people steadfastly balk at working jobs that don't pay $18 or $20/hr (or more) with great benefit packages, as that's what they got while the Big 3 were doing good. They may not all be loafers looking for a free ride, but a lot of them won't "stoop" until things are really bad... which is not too far away.

Welfare, as it is intended, is certainly not going to lead to a life of luxury. The people using their welfare money to buy bling are working the system heavily in their favor. Anyone on the up and up would be struggling on ~$300 month, even in the cheapest areas... and welfare tends to be concentrated in bigger cities where things aren't cheap.

As for the callous nature of some people... it'll never go away. Most affluent/wealthy people don't realize (or won't admit) that their wealth is built on a foundation of stability that a welfare state provides. We're approaching levels of income/wealth inequality not seen since prior to the Great Depression. If you have too many poor people struggling to get by, that creates a lot of instability and eventually violent upheaval. Yet a large portion of this country is adamant that as long as they're doing okay, everything is okay.

 

Unfortunately, this is not true. I know of a young woman who has developmental delays and thinks she is fully capable of living independently. When I asked her what she would do if she ran out of money, she looked at me like I had three heads and said simply, "I would go to the bank and get more." She does not have the capacity to understand concepts related to things like time and money. It's really sad.

 

A lot of people aren't accountable for their own well being, and that's a cultural byproduct of a welfare state (see: France). Can you teach accountability? Should you ignore someone who has had a long run of bad breaks and needs a helping hand, just because a guy down the street abuses the system?


Not Scarlett by the way, but the resemblance is definitely there.

 

As a side note, and perhaps along the lines of what WestSideBilly is saying, is the idea that, "If I'm capable of working and managing my money, so is everyone else." It sounds like some people posting in this thread are making assumptions based on things they see. Thing is, there are several unseen factors...developmental delays, mental illness...

I've made assumptions too...including the idea that people with above average incomes tend to be more educated and more prone to critical thinking.

 

I see a lot of kids (16-25 year olds) who have absolutely no money management skills despite coming from middle/upper income families and having a good education. They're never forced to be part of monetary decisions until they get out on their own, and even then a lot of them rely on the Bank of Mom & Dad to stay afloat. It's not just poor people that struggle with this.

A good example...

Wednesday: "I can't afford my rent... is there any consequence to not paying on time?"
Saturday: "I'm bored with my Accord, I'm going to get a new car... what do you guys think about the MazdaSpeed 3?"

 

My definition of poor is:

1) Unable or unwilling to learn new things.
2) Unable to see opportunities and capitalize on them.
3) Unwilling to do without in order to gain.
4) Unwilling to change circumstances substantially in order to advance.
5) A lack of faith to provide the motivation to do what must be done.

It's a tough cookie to crack. How do you get people to change themselves? You can't. Either you find the wherewithall to do it yourself, or you don't. It's a struggle to motivate yourself, even. I guess it comes down to finding your lever and then exploiting it daily.

I don't think there is ever a "true" answer to what defines poor. It's a highly subjective matter. I've been poor myself many times in my life. I just didn't recognize it.

 

That is why I have said education and incentives to create a change of mindset!

 

Unfortunately, you can't help some people (even if they legitimately need it) without helping the guy down the street who is using the money to buy weed. It's a double-edged sword. My only arguement is this: I went to college and worked my ass off to get a good education and a good job. Why should I have to pay because Joe Everyman gets laid off from his assembly line job (even if it is not his fault) and can't find another assembly line job? He chose to take a blue collar position instead of an education. I'm not bashing his blue-collar job at all, but it was his choice. I'm currently in debt from student loans but have the ability to pay it off with a higher-paying job and more job security. Plus, I have a marketable skillset that can be used in a variety of jobs, so if I do get laid off finding another job is easier. He has no debt (from education at least). However, his skill set is limited to pushing buttons and pulling levers. He chose the quick money method out of high school. I chose to start in the hole but have a higher ceiling later in life. Again, its a personal choice but a choice no less and he should have to deal with whatever consequences his choice brings. JMHO

 

I didn't read the thread all of the way through. I just chimed in with my definition.

I think we may have similar thoughts on the issue.

We should get together and have a beer I'm coming up on some time off before long (I hope), so I might actually make some section meets.