DCMike33

Not sure if this has been covered for our area but I have been looking into getting my car tuned. Right now I have the K&N intake that everyone has and an Invidia test pipe. I was doing some reading that if I get it tuned with just those mods you can get up to an extra 30whp. So I was wondering what I need to get that done and where I should go. I have an 05 AP2. Thanks for the help.

s2000Junky

You will pick up 15-20whp/trq at about 5k rpm. Your increase in power will start at your new lowered vtec engagement which the TP will allow, this lowered vtec generally starts to show gains at about 4k rpm with your mods. So from 4-6krpm is where you will see the most power. Above 6k rpm to redline you can realistically see 5-10whp. To see gains of 30whp anywhere in the rpm range will require a culmination of additional bolt on's. Its easier to make that 30whp in the mid range then it is at peak on this motor. The mid range is where you will notice and appreciate it most anyway for most DD or spirited driving.

DCMike33

Yeah the mid range power is where I have seen the most gain at least from all that I have read so far. It is my DD car and I do AutoX from time to time so I would like to get the most I can out of the car but at the same time not spending a lot of money since I have not own the car for very long now.

s2000Junky

The intake and TP are by far the best dollar to performance value your going to get, the value diminishes from there. But in order to capitalize on your bolt ons, you do need a form of engine management that can move vtec engagement and control fuel, at minimum. The ability to control timing through some means will show some gains as well, but that places you in a more expensive tuning arena. You can go from the most basic tuning solution of a vafc with its ability to lower/raise vtec and trim fuel only, and move up to the next level of control with an E-manage, with all functions of a full EMS but still depend on the stock ECU to provide the base, and then of course move to multiple options of full stand alones out there. Some may disagree with this, but in my experience the vafc is probably the best bang for buck, it has some short comings, but it is the least expensive and will yield you about 80% of your possible power potential from your current bolt ons. The Emanage is a very close second. I have used them both. Used prices with PNP harness go from ($225-$300 vafc) ($400-$500 Emanage) ($800-$1200 Full EMS)

DCMike33

Yeah I have read that the vafc can cause some issues do to you not being able to control timing. I was thinking more of a piggy back system like Emanage. I ran Emanage blue on my civic with a simple tune that I did myself. I have heard that it is hard to find a shop that will tune Emanage though. Not sure if that is still true that was like 3 years ago when I heard that. I would like to get a proper dyno tune since this is my only car and I need it to be reliable.

s2000Junky

The vafc is harmless, where it lacks is purely efficiency and minimal control, but like I said what it does works and will get you about 80% of your cars potential in its current configuration. The Emanage Ultimate is a strong choice, there is a couple of us that use it, but there really is no support for it locally and little across the country to my knowledge, so we have become self reliant in that regard, utilizing information that’s on s2ki and through trial and error. There is a member here who I will keep anonymous who initiated taking on the task of learning the ins/outs of the unit and he can offer up any input if he chooses. But If you’re not up to taking on a little bit of a challenge of tuning your own car, the vafc or full stand alone which local tuners support may be better option for you.

urBan_dK

Most of the gains people love from tuning NA is in the midrange where the new VTEC area is. About half of those gains come from switching to the high cam and the other half from increasing timing to take advantage of the high cam. Therefore, with the VAFC I would see you are seeing approximately 50% of the full advantage of the new VTEC area. Not many gains to be had in peak horsepower, perhaps 5 whp at most, gained only from leaning out the mixture a bit. I find the timing targets at higher RPM to be sufficient for our sub-par 92 octane fuel.

I have never used the VAFC but it is far from harmless if you understand the principle it works under - it basically fools the ECU into thinking there is less MAP voltage then is really there when you subtract fuel. So you get less fuel but you also get increased timing. This is OK in the midrange where the new VTEC area begs for more timing, but if you are subtracting any fuel at higher RPMs you are also adding timing there inadvertently and asking for trouble.

s2000Junky

I respect urban and his knowledge, certainly when it comes to software navigation/understanding and general tuning. But we don't always agree on some things and sometimes where its applicable, and that's ok we all help each other out in the end and that's what its about.

Real world has shown more then a 50% gain from just lowering vtec in the area where it makes power. 80% as I a mentioned is a more fair assessment shown, the other 20% in timing. But Ive actually dynoed my car unlike Urban and more times then I can count, with and without timing correction. I can go in my drawer and pull out graphs Ive saved over the years all done on dynojets. I can compare vafc tunes along with emanage tunes with/without timing correction.

The other aspect is the inadvertent timing advance caused by removing fuel with this device, putting the fuel points in a area where more timing is present, this may be true, however no one to my knowledge has mapped the degree in which x fuel correction adds x timing, so we can only guess if its a factor that's worth considering from a text book standpoint. Through real world I have gathered that it is minimal with the average corrections made with the device, because if it wasn't, the trend of use would be far less with far more destroyed motors. Those of us who have run it for 10's of thousands of miles can attest to zero harm caused with the device, no detonation through its use, which is the concern when inadvertently advancing the timing beyond its safe scope for the fuel used. I would have no reservation using one in the future from a safety standpoint if the necessity presented itself.

DCMike33

Hmm well you guys seem to have way more knowledge about this then I do. When it comes to tuning cars I have no experience what so ever. I wouldn't even know where to begin. This is my first sports car and my first car worth doing anything too. I guess I need more info. and more experience with the car before I move on to more modifications. I really appreciate the info and the help.

s2000Junky

I think this is a great idea. Enjoy the car for what it is and when you get to know it well and are comfortable with it or bored, then you will better feel where it can be improved and that point you will actually get some gratification out of the changes because you are getting some direct contrast to what you have changed. If you just throw a typical collection of mods you can afford at the car because they are popular, you never really get to appreciate what they have done, or if they have done anything at all, and better yet give you much of any baring to know where to stray from that for your own taste in the future. Seat time/driver is the best modification first. Our temptation to mod and make something our own doesn't always favor that I understand though, just in a perfect world.