Alignment Help
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Alignment Help
Hey Guys! I've had my s2000 for about 4 months now, it's parked for the winter and I was planning on doing some work to it.
Currently, Its lowered probably 1.5 in with T1R coilovers. Curtosy of Verlin at Speedtech, I installed the T1R front bumpsteer kit and noticed a good improvement in how the car felt. I also plan to also purchase the Rear bumpsteer kit from Speedtech over the next few months and install that myself.
I had the car aligned after installing the front bumpsteer kit and noticed a big reduction in the drifty feeling this car has sometimes. I also rest the EPS to recenter the steering wheel. But it still doens't feel quite right. My previous car was a 2003 M3 and the steering/feel in that was deadly!! So im trying to figure out if the feel of my s2000 is as good as it's gonna get, or if I can get different alignment specs to make it feel better.
Here's the issue I'm still feeling with the S2000.
1) On turns that are bumpy I can feel the back end want to step out, I know this will be reduced with a rear bumpsteer kit so that's not a big concern at the moment.
2)The steering feels kind of numb, there isn't much feel to it. I also notice that when I turn the steering wheel left or right the feedback from the wheel isn't smooth. What I mean is, it feels like the EPS is applying different presures to the steering rack throughout the turn.
3)I don't know if this next one is normal but I'm thinking it might be. I notice that constantly correcting becasue the steering is very tight and the slightest movement on the steering wheel translates to movement of the car. Also, it feels like every uneven part of the road moves the car, but I feel like that might be due to the fact that the car is light, not that wide, and small wheelbase compared to what I used to drive.
4)Lastly, I notice that the steering wheel doesnt come back to center when I turn left. For example, I will be coming along a left turn, let go of the steering wheel and the car keeps turning left and the steering wheel doesnt' return to center position. When I let go of the wheel should the steering position not reset to the middle? When I try it with a right turn I notice it's alot better, the steering wheel will rest to the middle.
I've tried searching for more info but a lot of the threads are cluttered up with miss information. Im here in edmonton and was hoping to get some Albertan's help with this! My name is Damian.
I've read that the s2000 doesnt' have the greatest steering feel so Im wondering if im just over analyzing things because Im used to how my M3 felt.
Also, what alignment specs are you guys running on lowered AP2s?
Thanks guys.
Currently, Its lowered probably 1.5 in with T1R coilovers. Curtosy of Verlin at Speedtech, I installed the T1R front bumpsteer kit and noticed a good improvement in how the car felt. I also plan to also purchase the Rear bumpsteer kit from Speedtech over the next few months and install that myself.
I had the car aligned after installing the front bumpsteer kit and noticed a big reduction in the drifty feeling this car has sometimes. I also rest the EPS to recenter the steering wheel. But it still doens't feel quite right. My previous car was a 2003 M3 and the steering/feel in that was deadly!! So im trying to figure out if the feel of my s2000 is as good as it's gonna get, or if I can get different alignment specs to make it feel better.
Here's the issue I'm still feeling with the S2000.
1) On turns that are bumpy I can feel the back end want to step out, I know this will be reduced with a rear bumpsteer kit so that's not a big concern at the moment.
2)The steering feels kind of numb, there isn't much feel to it. I also notice that when I turn the steering wheel left or right the feedback from the wheel isn't smooth. What I mean is, it feels like the EPS is applying different presures to the steering rack throughout the turn.
3)I don't know if this next one is normal but I'm thinking it might be. I notice that constantly correcting becasue the steering is very tight and the slightest movement on the steering wheel translates to movement of the car. Also, it feels like every uneven part of the road moves the car, but I feel like that might be due to the fact that the car is light, not that wide, and small wheelbase compared to what I used to drive.
4)Lastly, I notice that the steering wheel doesnt come back to center when I turn left. For example, I will be coming along a left turn, let go of the steering wheel and the car keeps turning left and the steering wheel doesnt' return to center position. When I let go of the wheel should the steering position not reset to the middle? When I try it with a right turn I notice it's alot better, the steering wheel will rest to the middle.
I've tried searching for more info but a lot of the threads are cluttered up with miss information. Im here in edmonton and was hoping to get some Albertan's help with this! My name is Damian.
I've read that the s2000 doesnt' have the greatest steering feel so Im wondering if im just over analyzing things because Im used to how my M3 felt.
Also, what alignment specs are you guys running on lowered AP2s?
Thanks guys.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Here's the issue I'm still feeling with the S2000.
1) On turns that are bumpy I can feel the back end want to step out, I know this will be reduced with a rear bumpsteer kit so that's not a big concern at the moment.
1) On turns that are bumpy I can feel the back end want to step out, I know this will be reduced with a rear bumpsteer kit so that's not a big concern at the moment.
2)The steering feels kind of numb, there isn't much feel to it. I also notice that when I turn the steering wheel left or right the feedback from the wheel isn't smooth. What I mean is, it feels like the EPS is applying different presures to the steering rack throughout the turn.
Left ------------------------------------------------------------------------Right
|.|.|.|.|..|..|..|..|..|...|...|...|...|...|....|. ...|...|...|...|...|...|..|..|..|..|.|.|.|.|.|
[QUOTE]3)I don't know if this next one is normal but I'm thinking it might be. I notice that
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
3)... Also, it feels like every uneven part of the road moves the car, but I feel like that might be due to the fact that the car is light, not that wide, and small wheelbase compared to what I used to drive.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
From: Nelson, BC
You've got several issues here:
1. You're coming from an M3. That car is in a very different league than the S2000, in terms of refinement and driver feel. Don't forget that a mere 20 years ago, Hondas were regarded the way Korean cars are regarded nowadays. S2000s are constantly critisized for numb steering whereas BMWs have a reputation for great steering feel, so you're sort of going from one side of the spectrum to the other. I'm sort of going by what other people say here, as I've never owned a German car before and have only occasionally driven friends' BMWS and Audis...
2. Modding suspension isn't easy. The engineers at Honda spent thousands of hours tweaking every last angle to perfection. Dropping the car messes all that up. The bumpsteer kits will fix some things, but there's more to it. In my old car, I spent about $1500 on coilovers, and another $1500 on adjustable parts to fix everything that the coilovers effed up, not to mention the hours nerding it up on the internet as well as a lot of help from trained Toyota techs.
3. Go get a good alignment. Not at a dealership, not at some place where they'll do a halfassed job. And what tires do you have? Some newer tires tramline less than others.
1. You're coming from an M3. That car is in a very different league than the S2000, in terms of refinement and driver feel. Don't forget that a mere 20 years ago, Hondas were regarded the way Korean cars are regarded nowadays. S2000s are constantly critisized for numb steering whereas BMWs have a reputation for great steering feel, so you're sort of going from one side of the spectrum to the other. I'm sort of going by what other people say here, as I've never owned a German car before and have only occasionally driven friends' BMWS and Audis...
2. Modding suspension isn't easy. The engineers at Honda spent thousands of hours tweaking every last angle to perfection. Dropping the car messes all that up. The bumpsteer kits will fix some things, but there's more to it. In my old car, I spent about $1500 on coilovers, and another $1500 on adjustable parts to fix everything that the coilovers effed up, not to mention the hours nerding it up on the internet as well as a lot of help from trained Toyota techs.
3. Go get a good alignment. Not at a dealership, not at some place where they'll do a halfassed job. And what tires do you have? Some newer tires tramline less than others.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
1) I haven't used the rear bumpsteer kit on my car, but I do know where you are coming from. One perfect example is going southbound on 109 Street, when you turn left to go under the tunnel by the Legislature building. There's a bump right in the middle of the corner that keeps you on your toes.
2) Steering feel I think is really only noticeable when you back to back cars. I did a BMW test drive event a few years ago, got to drive an A4, IS350, 330 and a few others. It was quite apparent that the A4 had pretty lifeless steering feel compared to the BMW.
Back when I drove my Saab daily (and before I ever drove an S2000, or other cars) I had no problem with the Saab's steering feel. But after owning a MINI Cooper S and the S2000, it's quite clear that a near on 30 year old design, 3.5 turns lock to lock just doesn't cut it compared to newer cars. The S2000 feels great to me, but maybe if I stepped into, say, an Elise or Exige, it may feel like crap.
I personally think the S2000's steering feel is fine, but the only comparison I have at the moment is my Saab, the winter beater Volvo and my fiancee's Civic. If you read any British car mags, they are a bit harsh on the S2000's steering as well, and almost any car with electric power steering in general.
Perhaps you could pop in an AP1 rack, or a CR rack (could be the same?) as they are a bit quicker. The CR rack stiffeners help a tad too.
3) The steering is quick, the car is light and a thoroughbred sportscar. Not to slag on an M3, but it is a performance car built from humble 3 series underpinings (but very good underpinings of course).
4) This sounds a bit weird. Might there be an issue in the EPS system?
Check out the Under the Hood forum and search up the UK spec alignment. I've been running it for a few summers now, and love it.
2) Steering feel I think is really only noticeable when you back to back cars. I did a BMW test drive event a few years ago, got to drive an A4, IS350, 330 and a few others. It was quite apparent that the A4 had pretty lifeless steering feel compared to the BMW.
Back when I drove my Saab daily (and before I ever drove an S2000, or other cars) I had no problem with the Saab's steering feel. But after owning a MINI Cooper S and the S2000, it's quite clear that a near on 30 year old design, 3.5 turns lock to lock just doesn't cut it compared to newer cars. The S2000 feels great to me, but maybe if I stepped into, say, an Elise or Exige, it may feel like crap.
I personally think the S2000's steering feel is fine, but the only comparison I have at the moment is my Saab, the winter beater Volvo and my fiancee's Civic. If you read any British car mags, they are a bit harsh on the S2000's steering as well, and almost any car with electric power steering in general.
Perhaps you could pop in an AP1 rack, or a CR rack (could be the same?) as they are a bit quicker. The CR rack stiffeners help a tad too.
3) The steering is quick, the car is light and a thoroughbred sportscar. Not to slag on an M3, but it is a performance car built from humble 3 series underpinings (but very good underpinings of course).
4) This sounds a bit weird. Might there be an issue in the EPS system?
Check out the Under the Hood forum and search up the UK spec alignment. I've been running it for a few summers now, and love it.
Trending Topics
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
+1 on the alignnment. You can make a car feel crappy or amazing depending on what numbers you get. If you really want steering feel you can ask for a bit more caster than camber for the front wheels. If you're really obsessed with steering feel, pull the fuse for the EPS.
It sounds like you may have almost no caster if the wheel won't re-center. Or, you may have a damaged steering rack. Jack the front end up and make sure there's no resistance to motion while the wheels are hanging in the air.
I noticed my car had pretty wicked rear end wobbles over bumps after a previous alignment. It turns out the tech put toe-out in the rear. Getting that corrected led to a much more stable car. The S2000 will always be more 'jittery' than most cars due to the suspension design.
Also, look in the Racing forum for a recent post on rear bumpsteer kits. They're not a part you can just bolt on and forget, you need to check them for cracks fairly regularly due to the stress the design puts into the bolt/pin.
It sounds like you may have almost no caster if the wheel won't re-center. Or, you may have a damaged steering rack. Jack the front end up and make sure there's no resistance to motion while the wheels are hanging in the air.
I noticed my car had pretty wicked rear end wobbles over bumps after a previous alignment. It turns out the tech put toe-out in the rear. Getting that corrected led to a much more stable car. The S2000 will always be more 'jittery' than most cars due to the suspension design.
Also, look in the Racing forum for a recent post on rear bumpsteer kits. They're not a part you can just bolt on and forget, you need to check them for cracks fairly regularly due to the stress the design puts into the bolt/pin.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post