I preferer the warm ambiance of tubes to the cold harsh environment of digital.....NOT!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You know those phonons can be a real problem in a 1200watt sub!

MAC/MOD- It's all about marketting. Guys like us that think function is important won't die rich (just right).

 

Hey now,
I've got a lot of digital music (AACs and MP3s) but when I was strapped for cash before cd burners were everywhere I found that everyone was getting rid off thier record collections because CDs were the new thing. I picked up so much music at 10 cents an alblum that I ran out of space.

Yeah people are idoits, that's not news.

But don't diss the analog. A jazz alblum just won't sound the same digitized. You can throw numbers at me all day and tell me that the human ear can't tell the difference between analog and digital, but I'll still play my Miles and Coltrane on a record, and not from a cd.

 

I have to agree that the knobs are just plain silly. But would you expect floor mats for a Mclaurn to be 100$ or 1000$?

As for audio quality, it is a subjective perception as I stated.

I would also argue that if you belive these changes do not make a perceptual difference over the documented statistical differences, then you have most likely not heard a truely quality stereo system. Or you do not have an ear for the distinctions. Which if that were the case I refer you back to my previous comment about being happy with a shelf system.

Also please remember there is a very distinct difference between stereo and home theater. You cannot effectively use one system for accurate reproduction of both sources.

 

i think most of us can fairly say that the far majority (i didn't bother looking at all of them) of those products are thick in BS. yes, there are suckers born every minute, an apparently they shop in Ca.

simultaneously though -- to mock all audiophiles based on the practices of those on the far edge is really uncalled for...
i am what is often considered an audiophile, and i assure you with a little training and instruction, almost anyone with good ear condition and some listening skills can be taught how to have at least something resembling 'golden ears'. however, you won't see me selling or buying $485 volume knobs or marketing tranformers to replace resistors in volume controls... clearly there are improvements to be had, but just as clearly there is marketing bull.

this horse has been beaten more than a few times, and frankly to provoke this conversation yet again is uncalled for...

in the past, i did have an opportunity to listen to various Kimber Kable speaker cables and was able to discern a difference in the sound produced. was it an improvement? yes, maybe... but a difference, definitely. i wouldn't have stated it was an improvement in bass response, but there was a noticable change in the dynamics and clarity of the midrange and some in the highs. however for $20/ft (asking price at the time), i still retain my (bi-wired) 12ga O2 free speaker wire (which cost less than 5% of the price.) and have no regrets.

still, the fundamental challenge/question here is this: are there audio upgrades to be had over basic consumer electronics? definitely.
do they need to cost the exorbitant amounts being pointed out here? no...
however, just due to the economies of scale and the cost of increased components - higher end gear will have to cost some quantity more. and then marketing is simply used to exploit it even further.

there are readily discernable audio improvements available over generic stereo gear. improved components, better noise filtering, upgraded chassis, tighter tolerances, etc. all play a part in this improvement.
and yet, anyone who claims to be able to tell the difference between a $100 Best Buy CD player and a $1,000 high end CD player is grouped into this massive 'dolts' catagory by the critics here.
and God forbid you claim that tube amps and good LPs sound different (much the less better) than digitized music or inexpensive chip amps.
what exposure have you had to the other side of the fence? have you ever heard a good LP/tube analog chain and compared it to a decent or good digital/chip based system?

so instead our 'golden ears' (i assure you, mine are still flesh) are mocked and doubted, but i continue to wonder how many of the 'mockers' have ever taken the time to stop and really listen to music on higher quality gear and compare to the generic fare out there? and i'm not even suggesting analog vs digital... just a generic best buy setup versus a higher end setup.
perhaps if they took the time to listen, they might find that there are improvements to be made, and that perhaps they will value those improvements enough to pay an additional price to achieve them...
or perhaps, you will or won'tl hear the improvements to be made, and recognize that for you - they are not important enough to spend the extra money...
but at least you will have tried the grass on the other side of the fence instead of just mocking those who choose to reside there.

 

With the 3 above posts.

Well said PJK3

I currently have a Home theater and a 2 ch stereo for music. There is a big difference with cables, connections, isolation feet, power conditioners, etc.. But only when using high end components. If I put my Balanced cables on my home theater I would not here a difference, but putting them between my Cary Audio tube amp and my CEC transport they make a huge difference in sound.
If you just look at the numbers, your missing a lot of good components and sound quality.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PJK3
there are readily discernable audio improvements available over generic stereo gear.

 

One of the problems with testing esoteric components is that no one can come up with a valid test arrangement. The engineers want to be able to do an A/B/X test, or at least an A/B test, but as soon as you introduce a switch or relay into the mix the audiophiles usually say you've ruined any chance at being able to reliably tell the difference between components.

This confuses me, because there aren't many stereo systems that don't have switches, so why does this one "non-factory" switch used in the A/B test cause so much distortion as to make the rest of the components useless?

I'm also confused by special (not large gauge) wires on speakers. I don't understand how putting 6 feet of $10/ft wire is helping when inside the speaker you have ordinary 18 gauge copper wire (not even oxygen-free) going from the terminals to the cross-over. What's worse, the cross-over is on a PC board with tiny tiny copper traces that are only .002 thick, why doesn't that negate the effects of the wonder-wire?

I'm an old man, so my ears are long since gone, but I remember a test done by a major Hi-Fi magazine many years ago where they tried to see if audiophiles and professional musicians could tell the difference between one amplifier and another. It's a long story, but to make it short, not one of the 50 audiophiles or musicians could tell the difference between a $300 Pioneer receiver and a $20,000 tube amp, unless they were looking at them.

This is not meant to say audiophiles are wrong, just that you can't prove they are right. So there's no point in arguing the merits of one component over another when there is no way to test them.

.

 

If two components measure well and sound good, I'll pay extra for the one that weighs more, looks better or has better fit and finish. And that's even if I couldn't hear a difference in a blind test.

If something doesn't measure well, I probably won't buy it even if it sounds good or looks good on the outside. Poor measurements rob my confidence in a product.

There are also brands I've just decided not to like, no matter how good they sound. I think I've missed some bargains because of this blind spot.

 

Here's some more fun ones from a store whose motto is "High Performance Doesn't Mean High Prices..."

Really?

Slab of wood: $70 http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=58
Steel discs: $600 http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=83
Cable holders (set of 8): $160 http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=45
Power plugs: $160 ($80 for each end of the cord)http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=176 and 177
24k Gold Plated Power receptacle: $78 http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=174

 

I've never understood why people invest that kind of money into components when for the same money you can slip into Meridian equipment with active digital loudspeakers, go all-digital with reclocking at every stage, and never have to worry about $1000/meter cables ever again.

I'm definitely cost-limited but my 2.1ch was worth not having to risk getting suckered into expensive cables, etc.