Speaker and amp question
Joined: May 2005
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From: Tallahassee, FL
I, personally, think it is too much. Phil is more of an audio guru than I am. But generally speaking, if you are pushing 125W to 60W speakers, that is way too much. The 180W max wattage is moot. Never look at max wattage. That level is what the manufacturers usually put on the box to lure people in. WRMS is what you need (or continuous power handling). The max number that man. quote is obtained in lab conditions. They continually push the speakers with a peak of power....like a spike of amperage. The max power is the point just below which the speakers blew. If you were to run 125WRMS to the speakers, they would almost surely blow out because the surrounds just cannot handle that kinda to force. I would invest in one that has the WRMS rating of / slightly higher that your speakers....not more than 30% is the rule of thumb I have heard.....so no more than say 75-80WRMS. (I got that figure from Willie Gee in a previous thread)
Sidebar - Phil (or anyone more experienced for that matter), if I am wrong, please let me know.
I cannot stress it enough....go an listen to the amps first and foremost. They all create power, but what kinda power and how it is transmitted makes the difference. If you buy a new amp and need a wiring kit, KNUKONCEPTZ.com has a cheap kit that has some quality wires ($20 or so....not the $100 that the chain stores are asking).
As far as the "direct" brand, I have not heard of it. Sounds like a stock amp from something like a Camaro to me.
John
Sidebar - Phil (or anyone more experienced for that matter), if I am wrong, please let me know.
I cannot stress it enough....go an listen to the amps first and foremost. They all create power, but what kinda power and how it is transmitted makes the difference. If you buy a new amp and need a wiring kit, KNUKONCEPTZ.com has a cheap kit that has some quality wires ($20 or so....not the $100 that the chain stores are asking).
As far as the "direct" brand, I have not heard of it. Sounds like a stock amp from something like a Camaro to me.
John
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Lafayette, LA
Originally Posted by jwa4378,Jul 14 2005, 03:19 PM
I, personally, think it is too much. Phil is more of an audio guru than I am. But generally speaking, if you are pushing 125W to 60W speakers, that is way too much. The 180W max wattage is moot. Never look at max wattage. That level is what the manufacturers usually put on the box to lure people in. WRMS is what you need (or continuous power handling). The max number that man. quote is obtained in lab conditions. They continually push the speakers with a peak of power....like a spike of amperage. The max power is the point just below which the speakers blew. If you were to run 125WRMS to the speakers, they would almost surely blow out because the surrounds just cannot handle that kinda to force. I would invest in one that has the WRMS rating of / slightly higher that your speakers....not more than 30% is the rule of thumb I have heard.....so no more than say 75-80WRMS. (I got that figure from Willie Gee in a previous thread)
Sidebar - Phil (or anyone more experienced for that matter), if I am wrong, please let me know.
I cannot stress it enough....go an listen to the amps first and foremost. They all create power, but what kinda power and how it is transmitted makes the difference. If you buy a new amp and need a wiring kit, KNUKONCEPTZ.com has a cheap kit that has some quality wires ($20 or so....not the $100 that the chain stores are asking).
As far as the "direct" brand, I have not heard of it. Sounds like a stock amp from something like a Camaro to me.
John
Sidebar - Phil (or anyone more experienced for that matter), if I am wrong, please let me know.
I cannot stress it enough....go an listen to the amps first and foremost. They all create power, but what kinda power and how it is transmitted makes the difference. If you buy a new amp and need a wiring kit, KNUKONCEPTZ.com has a cheap kit that has some quality wires ($20 or so....not the $100 that the chain stores are asking).
As far as the "direct" brand, I have not heard of it. Sounds like a stock amp from something like a Camaro to me.
John
Joined: May 2005
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From: Tallahassee, FL
Directed Audio is made by DEI, the same people who produce Viper alarms, etc. They're pretty solid amps from the reviews and comments I've read.
John
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From: Irvine, SoCal
I assume that you have OEM HU, that why you have the Line Output Converter, to convert speaker levels to RCA levels to feed your Directed 400 amp.
Your next speaker is Polk db650 with a sensitivity of 92 dB, if your maximum listenning is 105 dB or less, you will need 20Wrms or less. Your Directed 400 amp will produce almost no distortion at that power level, if the input signal is clean. It is recommended to have an amp with more power than your speakers can handle is that when you turn up the volume to very loud, upto the level of maximum rating of your speaker RMS, the amp will produce very little distortion because it is way below its rated RMS.
The problem with your current setup is not the amp' gain or the amp power, but it is the LOC's gain. You need to adjust the gain(s) of your LOC down to somewhere between 1/4 to 3/8 of maximum, then adjust the gain(s) of your amp such that at your volume setting on the HU, the music will start to distort, then adjust the gain(s) of your amp back a little.
If you are buying less powerfull amp, let say 60Wrms/ch amp, and with perfectly adjusted gains of LOC and new amp, you will blow up the Polk db650 sooner with the new amp than the old amp if you turn up the volume to produce sound pressure level of 110 dB.
If money is not importance, I would rather have an amp that have 2,3 or 4 times the power I ever needed, so that at the level I am listening to, it will generate clean sound without distortion.
Your next speaker is Polk db650 with a sensitivity of 92 dB, if your maximum listenning is 105 dB or less, you will need 20Wrms or less. Your Directed 400 amp will produce almost no distortion at that power level, if the input signal is clean. It is recommended to have an amp with more power than your speakers can handle is that when you turn up the volume to very loud, upto the level of maximum rating of your speaker RMS, the amp will produce very little distortion because it is way below its rated RMS.
The problem with your current setup is not the amp' gain or the amp power, but it is the LOC's gain. You need to adjust the gain(s) of your LOC down to somewhere between 1/4 to 3/8 of maximum, then adjust the gain(s) of your amp such that at your volume setting on the HU, the music will start to distort, then adjust the gain(s) of your amp back a little.
If you are buying less powerfull amp, let say 60Wrms/ch amp, and with perfectly adjusted gains of LOC and new amp, you will blow up the Polk db650 sooner with the new amp than the old amp if you turn up the volume to produce sound pressure level of 110 dB.
If money is not importance, I would rather have an amp that have 2,3 or 4 times the power I ever needed, so that at the level I am listening to, it will generate clean sound without distortion.
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
DEI amps aren't the greatest, but they are far from the worst. at this point, there seems to be no need to ditch the amp.
since we now know you have LOC's -- i'm going to agree w/ TR-S2K
read the FAQ post about adjusting gains, as it will help you out. only now, you have 1 more set of gains in the mix to deal with. actually, iirc -- TR-S2K wrote up a nice little guide on adjusting gains when using LOC's... when i get home or get a chance, i'll try to dig it up. (if he doesn't beat me to it.)
since we now know you have LOC's -- i'm going to agree w/ TR-S2K
The problem with your current setup is not the amp' gain or the amp power, but it is the LOC's gain. You need to adjust the gain(s) of your LOC down to somewhere between 1/4 to 3/8 of maximum, then adjust the gain(s) of your amp such that at your volume setting on the HU, the music will start to distort, the adjust the gain(s) back a little.
read the FAQ post about adjusting gains, as it will help you out. only now, you have 1 more set of gains in the mix to deal with. actually, iirc -- TR-S2K wrote up a nice little guide on adjusting gains when using LOC's... when i get home or get a chance, i'll try to dig it up. (if he doesn't beat me to it.)
Thread Starter
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From: Lafayette, LA
Excellent! 
I'll check my LOC to see if it's adjustable, if not I'll buy one that is. Either way it will be much cheaper and less hassle than buying a new amp and selling my old one.
I'll check my LOC to see if it's adjustable, if not I'll buy one that is. Either way it will be much cheaper and less hassle than buying a new amp and selling my old one.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Irvine, SoCal
p0pe,
This is what I wrote about a year ago. If this is too complicated, let me know, I will simplify the steps you will needed to adjust your system. It will be helpfull if you tell me what are components of your system: Stock HU + LOC + EDI amp + front speakers + (Sub + rear speakers)
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203223
Phil, how did you remember that I wrote this a year ago ?
You have such a good memory, much better than mine. I did not remember this until I saw your post.
This is what I wrote about a year ago. If this is too complicated, let me know, I will simplify the steps you will needed to adjust your system. It will be helpfull if you tell me what are components of your system: Stock HU + LOC + EDI amp + front speakers + (Sub + rear speakers)
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203223
Phil, how did you remember that I wrote this a year ago ?
You have such a good memory, much better than mine.
I did not remember this until I saw your post.
Thread Starter
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From: Lafayette, LA
Originally Posted by TR-S2K,Jul 14 2005, 05:17 PM
p0pe,
This is what I wrote about a year ago. If this is too complicated, let me know, I will simplify the steps you will needed to adjust your system. It will be helpfull if you tell me what are components of your system: Stock HU + LOC + EDI amp + front speakers + (Sub + rear speakers)
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203223
Phil, how did you remember that I wrote this a year ago ?
You have such a good memory, much better than mine. I did not remember this until I saw your post.
This is what I wrote about a year ago. If this is too complicated, let me know, I will simplify the steps you will needed to adjust your system. It will be helpfull if you tell me what are components of your system: Stock HU + LOC + EDI amp + front speakers + (Sub + rear speakers)
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203223
Phil, how did you remember that I wrote this a year ago ?
You have such a good memory, much better than mine.
I did not remember this until I saw your post.Stock HU
LOC (adjustable)
Directed 400 amp
-125 wrms x 2 @ 4 ohms
-gain adjustment
-LPF, FLAT, and HPF settings
-50-500 Hz crossover
-Bass EQ toggle
Polk db650 speakers (2 front speakers only)
-Sensitivity (dB) 92
-Frequency response (Hz) 40Hz-22kHz
-RMS power handling (Watts) 60
-Peak power handling (watts) 180
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,331
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From: Tallahassee, FL
Hey-
I still think that the 125 is too much for the 60WRMS speakers.....just my opinion. What TR-S2k (i think) was saying is that is should work, as long as the gains are not set too high...so you are not pushing a true 125 WRMS all the time. Listen to these guys, they know what they are talking about.
Phil an TR - am I correct in what I said above about the gains and it still working? Please explain why these speakers will work and not blow up. (just trying to learn)
John
I still think that the 125 is too much for the 60WRMS speakers.....just my opinion. What TR-S2k (i think) was saying is that is should work, as long as the gains are not set too high...so you are not pushing a true 125 WRMS all the time. Listen to these guys, they know what they are talking about.
Phil an TR - am I correct in what I said above about the gains and it still working? Please explain why these speakers will work and not blow up. (just trying to learn)
John