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Copper in Oil

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Old Apr 20, 2016 | 03:09 PM
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Default Copper in Oil

I have a boosted S with about 101k miles on it I always keep on up on my oil changes especially after boosting it. My oil pressure is great around 20 psi at idle and between 80-90 psi above 3000 RPM's. After removing oil yesterday I can see small bits of copper in the oil. I am pretty certain this is the rod bearings. There is no noise, knocking, or anything that I can hear, and the car drove completely normal. I plan on removing the oil pan this week and inspecting the rod bearings to see if there is any wear.
-Is there anything I need to know before attempting this?
-If the rod bearings are damaged could this mean the main's are also?
-If the rod bearings are not damaged, then the only other colporate could be the main bearings, is there any way to inspect the main bearings without removing the motor from the car? Like removing the caps one at a time without warping the crankshaft.

On a side note I believe the tune on it is not the best and it might have knocked a bunch of times which is why I think it might be the rod bearings and not the main. I hooked up my laptop and reduced the timing by quite a bit and it stopped the knocking but I think the damage is already done. Also could knocking destroy main bearings? I know these are a lot of questions so thank you to anyone that can help me!
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Old Apr 20, 2016 | 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Brannonanand
I have a boosted S with about 101k miles on it I always keep on up on my oil changes especially after boosting it. My oil pressure is great around 20 psi at idle and between 80-90 psi above 3000 RPM's. After removing oil yesterday I can see small bits of copper in the oil. I am pretty certain this is the rod bearings. There is no noise, knocking, or anything that I can hear, and the car drove completely normal. I plan on removing the oil pan this week and inspecting the rod bearings to see if there is any wear.
-Is there anything I need to know before attempting this?
-If the rod bearings are damaged could this mean the main's are also?
-If the rod bearings are not damaged, then the only other colporate could be the main bearings, is there any way to inspect the main bearings without removing the motor from the car? Like removing the caps one at a time without warping the crankshaft.

On a side note I believe the tune on it is not the best and it might have knocked a bunch of times which is why I think it might be the rod bearings and not the main. I hooked up my laptop and reduced the timing by quite a bit and it stopped the knocking but I think the damage is already done. Also could knocking destroy main bearings? I know these are a lot of questions so thank you to anyone that can help me!
I blew my engine not to long ago. I just finished a GReddy Turbo Kit. And it blew in about 2 days. Long story short. It didn't drive different. It did knock like crazy. Once I took my oil pan off. I saw gold(copper). All of my bearings, both Rods and Mains just went to poop.
-Is there anything I need to know before attempting this?
Work on it, somewhere you can store it for a while. Once it comes apart. It will be painful(emotionally) to put back.
-If the rod bearings are damaged could this mean the main's are also?
Mine, went out at the same time. IF the rods are bad(bearings), pay close attention to the cylinder walls. All 4 of my cylinders scored the walls badly.
-If the rod bearings are not damaged, then the only other colporate could be the main bearings, is there any way to inspect the main bearings without removing the motor from the car?
When I blew mine, I wasn't able to see anything(related to the mains, untill i took out the main bearing carrier).
Like removing the caps one at a time without warping the crankshaft.
this won't work. Since our lower oil pan has the carriers made in them. So dropping 1 Main Bearing Journal... Means you have to drop them all. Like this one.
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Spooked25
Originally Posted by Brannonanand' timestamp='1461193769' post='23944073
I have a boosted S with about 101k miles on it I always keep on up on my oil changes especially after boosting it. My oil pressure is great around 20 psi at idle and between 80-90 psi above 3000 RPM's. After removing oil yesterday I can see small bits of copper in the oil. I am pretty certain this is the rod bearings. There is no noise, knocking, or anything that I can hear, and the car drove completely normal. I plan on removing the oil pan this week and inspecting the rod bearings to see if there is any wear.
-Is there anything I need to know before attempting this?
-If the rod bearings are damaged could this mean the main's are also?
-If the rod bearings are not damaged, then the only other colporate could be the main bearings, is there any way to inspect the main bearings without removing the motor from the car? Like removing the caps one at a time without warping the crankshaft.

On a side note I believe the tune on it is not the best and it might have knocked a bunch of times which is why I think it might be the rod bearings and not the main. I hooked up my laptop and reduced the timing by quite a bit and it stopped the knocking but I think the damage is already done. Also could knocking destroy main bearings? I know these are a lot of questions so thank you to anyone that can help me!
I blew my engine not to long ago. I just finished a GReddy Turbo Kit. And it blew in about 2 days. Long story short. It didn't drive different. It did knock like crazy. Once I took my oil pan off. I saw gold(copper). All of my bearings, both Rods and Mains just went to poop.
-Is there anything I need to know before attempting this?
Work on it, somewhere you can store it for a while. Once it comes apart. It will be painful(emotionally) to put back.
-If the rod bearings are damaged could this mean the main's are also?
Mine, went out at the same time. IF the rods are bad(bearings), pay close attention to the cylinder walls. All 4 of my cylinders scored the walls badly.
-If the rod bearings are not damaged, then the only other colporate could be the main bearings, is there any way to inspect the main bearings without removing the motor from the car?
When I blew mine, I wasn't able to see anything(related to the mains, untill i took out the main bearing carrier).
Like removing the caps one at a time without warping the crankshaft.
this won't work. Since our lower oil pan has the carriers made in them. So dropping 1 Main Bearing Journal... Means you have to drop them all. Like this one.
Oh my sorry to hear about your motor, seems like you didn't even have fun with it after putting the turbo on!
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 09:13 AM
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Update on the car: I removed the oil pan and removed each of the rod caps and inspected both top and bottom bearings and they look cleanish they look like they have seen around 100k miles and the crank journal looks pristine no scoring, scratches, mars, burn marks, looks brand new! This leads me to believe that the only other colporate is the main bearings. Could this be anything else? I checked the turbo for side to side play in case it was the thrust bearings but it has minimal side play. Is there any thing else that can leave copper in the oil? I really do not want to remove the motor to check the mains if there is something else I can do to save it still. Thanks for any ones help!
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 11:59 AM
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what motor mounts are you using?
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 12:08 PM
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You sure its copper? Maybe send your oil sample off to Blackstone for a proper analysis, which can really help you point to a problem or pending one.
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 01:05 PM
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It may just be your oil pump wearing out. I believe the pump impeller may be made of brass or a similar metal.
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Brannonanand
Oh my sorry to hear about your motor, seems like you didn't even have fun with it after putting the turbo on!

I did not. Not even 20 miles... after I got the new motor...my GReddy turbo blew.

OP: I'd double check what Spoolin said. The oil pump. I don't know of another way to check the main bearings, without taking them out...
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Old Apr 21, 2016 | 09:20 PM
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the oil pump rotor is hardened steel . if the rods and pressure are good what kind of turbo are you running ? journal or ball bearing ? what is the end play on crankshaft? could be thrust bearing on crank or turbo problem in journal turbo. look at the pic in my supercharger thread on the air to air i have pics of rod bearings with around 100k miles that have seen aluminum in the oil but are still in spec . my clearance was .0018 on all and was seeing 65-70 psi due to the oil cooler and the oil feed supercharger with 10-30 w hot idle was 10-15 psi and @ 3k 60-70 psi now i have 20 idles 80-95 psi @ 3k rpms with 10-60 bmw oil the supercharger gears seem to really do a number on the oil film. hope you figure it out good luck to you
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Old Apr 22, 2016 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by s2k manic
the oil pump rotor is hardened steel . if the rods and pressure are good what kind of turbo are you running ? journal or ball bearing ? what is the end play on crankshaft? could be thrust bearing on crank or turbo problem in journal turbo. look at the pic in my supercharger thread on the air to air i have pics of rod bearings with around 100k miles that have seen aluminum in the oil but are still in spec . my clearance was .0018 on all and was seeing 65-70 psi due to the oil cooler and the oil feed supercharger with 10-30 w hot idle was 10-15 psi and @ 3k 60-70 psi now i have 20 idles 80-95 psi @ 3k rpms with 10-60 bmw oil the supercharger gears seem to really do a number on the oil film. hope you figure it out good luck to you
I am running a journal bearing turbonetics turbo, when draining the turbo I did see more cooper specs in the oil which is extremely odd since the oil is first passed through the oil filter and is then feed into the turbo. Not to mention there is an oil restrictor that would make metal very hard to get through and into the turbo. It could be the turbo? The crankshaft has no play at all, I tried putting some force on it with a solid flat head (not sure if this is the correct way to do it) but saw no play what so ever.
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