How a wastegate works...
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,494
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From: Chiswick
Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Feb 4 2008, 02:15 AM
Its 38mm for both inlet and outlet. I also see what your saying but the wastegate is basically a giant 90 degree elbow and because of that, it seems the larger the valve is open, the more total flow it could handle.
By only allowing the valve to open ~19mm out of a total of 38mm, it seems the 38mm is just a advertising gimmic the same as even though crank horsepower is 300, the actual used horsepower is just 250 (for example).
I personally think the WG could flow so much better if allowed to open all the way but again I didn't design this.
By only allowing the valve to open ~19mm out of a total of 38mm, it seems the 38mm is just a advertising gimmic the same as even though crank horsepower is 300, the actual used horsepower is just 250 (for example).
I personally think the WG could flow so much better if allowed to open all the way but again I didn't design this.
Was it something that was always there, but only happened drastically when you upped the boost? Does it happen with a lower PSI spring? what is boost creep? Do you know its creeping because you hit load rev limiter? or is it from your boost gauge? have you checked your vacuum lines? Any holes?
Did you change anything around when you went from your old setup to the new one you have now?
Have you tried running no boost controller and just the spring?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,643
Likes: 103
From: Irvine
Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Feb 4 2008, 12:15 AM
Its 38mm for both inlet and outlet. I also see what your saying but the wastegate is basically a giant 90 degree elbow and because of that, it seems the larger the valve is open, the more total flow it could handle.
By only allowing the valve to open ~19mm out of a total of 38mm, it seems the 38mm is just a advertising gimmic the same as even though crank horsepower is 300, the actual used horsepower is just 250 (for example).
I personally think the WG could flow so much better if allowed to open all the way but again I didn't design this.
By only allowing the valve to open ~19mm out of a total of 38mm, it seems the 38mm is just a advertising gimmic the same as even though crank horsepower is 300, the actual used horsepower is just 250 (for example).
I personally think the WG could flow so much better if allowed to open all the way but again I didn't design this.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by PeanutButter,Feb 4 2008, 08:00 AM
is this a synape valve?
Just find it funny that the bottom of this pages advertising says.
synapse....Got Creep?
Just find it funny that the bottom of this pages advertising says.
synapse....Got Creep?
that was my first thought too. I hope this is just a small problem for them because the rest of their design seems really "solid"
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,301
Likes: 18
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by Soul Coughing,Feb 4 2008, 02:28 AM
when did you get boost creep? Was it cold weather? WHen you upped the boost?
Was it something that was always there, but only happened drastically when you upped the boost? Does it happen with a lower PSI spring? what is boost creep? Do you know its creeping because you hit load rev limiter? or is it from your boost gauge? have you checked your vacuum lines? Any holes?
Did you change anything around when you went from your old setup to the new one you have now?
Have you tried running no boost controller and just the spring?
Was it something that was always there, but only happened drastically when you upped the boost? Does it happen with a lower PSI spring? what is boost creep? Do you know its creeping because you hit load rev limiter? or is it from your boost gauge? have you checked your vacuum lines? Any holes?
Did you change anything around when you went from your old setup to the new one you have now?
Have you tried running no boost controller and just the spring?
Its always been there but seems to be getting worse, its now doing it on the dyno; it never did that before. The spring rating doesn't matter. I have 2 gauges that read pressure and both confirm each other. I've also hit limiter once which confirmed my gauges are reading properly. I checked all vacuum lines the other day for any problems and everything was fine.
Nothing has been changed which is why its strange that its getting worse.
Running just the spring my intended psi doubles by redline. Not that its a problem since I can support much more then that, but I'd like to run a steady psi from ~4k up to redline. If I wanted my boost to go up linearly, I would have a SC
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,301
Likes: 18
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by PeanutButter,Feb 4 2008, 08:00 AM
is this a synape valve?
Just find it funny that the bottom of this pages advertising says.
synapse....Got Creep?
Just find it funny that the bottom of this pages advertising says.
synapse....Got Creep?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 429
Likes: 1
the synapse valves have no metal to metal contact, so you'll never see scoring marks on the valve stem like you will with traditional diaphragm wg's.
boost creep can also be a result of a poorly designed manifold. to help prevent creep, you can run a wg priority manifold, much like the ones found on the champ cars.
boost creep can also be a result of a poorly designed manifold. to help prevent creep, you can run a wg priority manifold, much like the ones found on the champ cars.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
From: El Segundo, CA
Decided to dissect my new Tial 44 and take some measurements before I install it to see if I can add to this discussion.
Tial 44mm wastegate:
Apart:
The exhaust outlet is 1.65" or 42mm.
The exhaust inlet is 1.84" or 46.75mm.
Valve lift: Zeroing the caliper to the closed position. The millimeter marks on this caliper are stationary, so I will be converting them from inches which may not be as precise.
Valve opens .92" which is ~23.37mm
Pics of the valve for reference:
Tial 44mm wastegate:
Apart:
The exhaust outlet is 1.65" or 42mm.
The exhaust inlet is 1.84" or 46.75mm.
Valve lift: Zeroing the caliper to the closed position. The millimeter marks on this caliper are stationary, so I will be converting them from inches which may not be as precise.
Valve opens .92" which is ~23.37mm
Pics of the valve for reference: