The second engine was taken to the tuner a safe map was put on and he was told to do a 1000 miles to run it in there is no blame whatsoever to be put onto glen.
This is not a Mickey Mouse setup sam ,the whole of the uk forum would stick up for glen .
fact the first engine turned up like it done 10 rounds with Mike Tyson.
fact the second engine turned up with the damaged pistons from the first build.
Do you have any idea just how expensive the motec ECU is? .
You could run a turbo double the size and the ECU would just kill the timing to make the engine safe.
Glen were dealing with people that don't even have a clue, I'm out before i call everyone a numpty .

 

Man, this is confusing.

 

Even Im confused.

The rebuilt engine was started and run up to check for leaks,that's it. It was then put on a low loader and taken to the tuner.It wasn't driven all day it wasn't driven not the low loader.

The 300 mile ect and the 700 miles refers to the car after it had been tuned....that was when I was bedding the motor in.

When it was put on the dyno after the 1170 miles bedding in,it had still got very noisy piston slap, once the revs were built up it started making some very strange noises,blew the dipstick out and started to eject quantitys ou oil over the hood and windscreen. We had to tape the dipstick in place to try to get a boost map on it.

 

Oh ok. Yeah, that's not very good LOL.
Some of you guys act like a base map is the worst thing ever. Driving on a basemap is ok. I wouldn't take my car to the track on a basemap and run it for 35 passes but it's ok to drive on. In fact, I bet some tuners basemaps are better than half the sh*t you guys pay big money for. But that's beside the point.
Although I am not living in Florida (I do have friends in the area though) I haven't heard much other than anything other than the shop cars coming from there. I do have one friend that loves Kings but he only purchased his turbo kit from there.

 

We are just going around in circles with this thread now.Unless somebody can put me straight I don't see what I could have done any differently.

If it turns out when the engine is stripped it's failed because of something I have done I will hold my hands upto it it.

To sumarise Kings told me they reused my damaged pistons...so they saved maybe $500, it's going to cost me around $8000 to have the engine built properly.

Now this has gone public would any of you buy a built engine off Kings Performance? I know I wouldn't.

The way I see it there has been no winners in this affair.

 

I'm purely going by what you posted in your build thread. What you've stated above is not what you said in the build thread. You drove it all morning before it was loaded onto the transport to Gary's. Your words.

I've asked quite a few people if driving on a base map is wise, they've all said the same thing, it isn't advised at all. This isn't a built N/A motor, this is a built motor with a fairly big turbo.

Fernando has offered up to look at the engine again, but you're refusing that, he's offered to cover the shipping, you still say no. I'm not sure what else you honestly expect them to do. He's offering his help, but you're declining.

I'm still honestly baffled how the engine survived without issue for 1100 miles yet when it gets back to your tuner, it fails. It simply doesn't add up to me.

 

Let's clear some of this up.

The first engine was brought down without being run for Gary to put the motec ecu on it and get it running. When he first fired it up he said to me it sounded like it had a little piston slap and thought it was smoking. He spent more time on it and it only confirmed what he thought and told glen the engine needed to come out to check it as something was wrong for it so be smoking. There are pictures around of the state of the first engine, I saw this with my own eyes and you could see det pitting on some pistons and damage on top of one piston, the head gasket had also started leaking in to the water jacket. This is when glen got a second hand engine and that was installed so he could use it.

I sent the engine back to America under instructions from Fernado, I asked what price he wanted putting on it for insurance and he said $500 or something close to that. I wasn't comfortable with that but be it on his head. Fed ex managed to put a forklift truck fork in to the block somewhere on its trip across and now Fernando had really f@#ked up as he hadn't put a big enough insurance amount on it. After hours of him and me being on the phone (as it was sent from the UK the claim had to be raised in the UK) Fernado was paid out $3500 to put right the damage.

The engine was set about being redone and Fernado had almost all his costs covered luckily, when the engine was ready to come back Glen found out Fernando's engine builder had used the same piston's that has the marks and damage on and which were smoking in the original engine(even if Fernando didn't want to pay for a new set of Pistons whilst he was offering the valve upgrade he could of offered a new set of pistons). So by this point it was too late and it was coming back to the UK. Glen got it back and swapped engine over, he brought it back down on the transporter so Gary could get it running. Once it first started the piston slap as Gary said is the worst he has ever heard. Whilst mapping it so glen could do the running in miles he said it was well down on power compared to the stock engine. Glen then transported it back and starting putting some miles on it.

Two week ago glen came down with the car to get it mapped for full power, the engine at wastegate pressure was almost 100hp down on a stock 2l engine. The dipstick kept blowing out, we got the boost up to 1.3 bar and it blew the dipstick out again with a load of oil all over the bonnet and windscreen (and I got some on me as I was standing next to it). At this point Gary wasn't prepared to go any further as it is a danger and if he had pushed it it would of likely let go at some point. The engine sounds rough due to the awful piston slap, doing a compression test and leak down test will only tell you the extent of the leaking as blowing oil out the dipstick hole tells you it's seriously getting past the piston's.

So we are up to date now and I hope it clears this up for everyone.

Bare in mind my car I have run 2bar of boost on a built engine and my dipstick doesn't pop out and oil doesn't squirt out. Also my 9.4:1 built engine makes the same power as my stock 11:1 engine did at wastegate pressure.

I truly feel sorry for Glen as he has been let down badly by a company that promotes themselves as being the best and fastest in the world but it seems they may only be the best and fastest for a very very short time before it goes pop and bang.

Edit: Just a note which I forgot to say this time(2weeks ago) is the first time it has been driven down here and the engine has always been run with a correct map on it.

 

I've spoke to Sam via PM but just for continuity ill repeat what I wrote him.

I think the confusion regarding the driving it for a whole day was because I said I started at 4am to get to Gary's.....I was referring to me driving the low loader with the car on it down to Gary's, so the car wasn't driven until it was mapped.The bimble I referred to was after it had been mapped/tune and be for it flooded it onto the low loader to bring it home.

I think the reason it survived the 1170 miles is because it was driven gently without boost and the revs kept below 4000 rpm.Once it went on the Dyno the engine was loaded up and boost built up progressively until bad things started happening.

Fernando may have told Sam he would pay to have it shipped to the States so he could inspect it but that isn't what he told me.He wanted me to pay to have it removed and shipped so he could inspect it.Thst would mean I would have to pay to have it shipped back re installed and tuned once again.That amount of money will pay for half the rebuild over here and with respect he did the same before and I ended up in the situation I'm in now.Although on that occasion Fernando did pay for shipping both way, which makes it all the more painful, to think it was an expensive wasted over tuning to do a proper rebuild.

I don't Trust Fernando ' s engine builder...period.Ill pay for the rebuild myself over here, that way I won't loose another summer without my car and ill know the job has been done properly, especially as I'm buying all the component parts myself new.

 

Sorry, but that is not what Glen wrote in his build. He posted quite plainly that he ran the car at home before taking it anywhere to have it tuned. He mentioned nowhere about any issue with the motor the first time it was at Gary's. Why on earth would someone not get in touch with Kings if when the engine was first fired up there was piston slap??? That was December 2014.

He then drove the car for 1100 odd miles on a base map tune with an engine with piston slap but mentions that nowhere in his build thread or anywhere else?

I'm really trying to understand all this, but what's being said now is not what was said previously in the build thread or elsewhere.

 

Jeez what a cluster F of a situation. I'm no master tuner but been tinkering with cars for 15+ yrs, and just because you run/drive a car on a base map doesn't mean it's going to go kaboom immediately. It's kind of laughable that people think "Oh no, it was driven for 5 mins on a basemap, the block is trash!" There are many different kinds of "basemaps." One that barely runs, and one that's pretty decent overall. A well built engine can take a fair bit of abuse (especially if you aren't running any boost on it) and it won't cause any damage.

I've seen a fresh engine thrown in a car with a "basemap" than ran like crap and the thing didn't self destruct. I've seen cars running PIG rich but the cyl walls were fine and didn't get "washed off." My point is, I get that you want to be careful with a brand new engine, but well built ones don't just take a dump because the tune isn't spot on. This seems more like a CYA disclosure from builders than anything else.

Ultimately, there are plenty of bad stories about most shops these days. Do any of you remember when inlinepro's goto setup for most turbo hondas was some 440cc injectors, their thick headgasket, a rrfpr, and an AFC? People would laugh at that these days as a terrible hack. This was right when hondata was BRAND NEW and inexpensive engine managements didn't exist (AEM didn't come out till years later). Their setups ran VERY rich and bogged, but they ran and didn't just blow up immediately. Inline has obviously come a long way but there are plenty of stories of people blowing engines with their setups many years ago.

If there's anything I got from the last thread, it's that bragging about your "world's fastest s2k" in someone's thread accusing you of delivering a turd of an engine is simply lacking class and looks bad. I've learned long ago to be wary of "engine builders" and "tuners" in the import world. What's amazing to me is how people can send someone so much money so far away because they built a fast car for themself. Fast cars merely display the ability of the shop, chances that you'll get the same attention on your stuff is very low, sadly.