Oil Pressure Issue
10-14-2016, 06:30 PM
#1
Oil Pressure Issue
Looking for some input / pential causes to look for with an Oil Pressure issue I am having.
2000 AP1 engine with upgraded Oil squirters, Oil cooler, Oil filter relocation kit, and a turbo on Pump 93. car has 46,000 on the odometer, 7,000 of it turbo'ed.
Innovate MTX-D Oil Pressure/temperature gauge setup.
Normal oil Pressure/temperatures for my car:
Cold start up ( <100*F): 40-45 PSI at idle.
Warm before driving (~140*F): 35-40 PSI at idle.
After driving for a while(170-180*F): 25-30 PSI at idle.
Oil Temperatures above 210*F (Up to 240*F): 20-25 PSI at idle.
Warm or cold, my oil pressure is normally 70-75 at 3K RPM, and drops down to 60-65 in VTEC.
About 2 months ago, I had an oil temperature excursion to about 250*F, but Coolant temperature has stayed in the 185-190*F range.
About 3 weeks ago, my oil pressure started dropping off while warm. I noticed it while coasting to a stop and my gauge started blinking 5-6 PSI. i immediately pulled over and checked the oil level and looked for leaks and found nothing.I babied the car home and noticed the oil pressure never came above 40 PSI while driving home. Once i got the car home, my oil pressure had dropd to 0 PSI at idle, but the stock light never came on. my first thought was a faulty pressure sender on my innovate unit, but had no way to test this yet. After some research, I did an oil/filter change using my normal AmsOil 10w30 signature series, cut my old filter up looking for metal, and strained my used oil through a paper filter. There was no meal particles in the oil filter, in he used oil, or on my magnetic drain plug, but i did notice the oil had thinned quite a bit and had a feint fuel smell, so I drained the majority of my cooler and relocation lines as well, but not the cooler it's self. I started the car and let it get to operating temperature and let my oil get to ~150*F, and my oil pressure was great, my normal 35-40 PSI. I then went on a 2 week long business trip.
Fast forward to today, I wanted to take my car out for one of the last times this year, so I started it, Oil pressure was 40-45. I went into my house and let the car warm up for ~25 minutes. when I went back out to my car, I immediately noticed my oil pressure gauge flashing 14 PSI.Oil temperature was up to ~160, and coolant was ~170. I decided to take the car for a dive and see what it would do. Once i feathered the throttle, all seemed well, oil pressure shot up to ~65 PSI before 2000 RPM. the first 5 minutes of the drive went well, oil pressure stayed above 60 the whole time, until i came to my first stop. Oil pressure dropped back down to 5-6 PSI at idle (oil was up to ~180*F), I turned around and headed home. On my way home, my oil pressure would not come above 40 PSI again. Once home, I decided to take my Fuel pressure gauge (mechanical) and plug it into my Oil filter relocation block (pre-filter PSI, pre-cooler PSI)) and started my car up. It was still up to temperature from the prior drive, and oil was still at 180*F. My oil pressure came right up to 30-31 PSI on the Digital, and 30 PSI line on the mechanical. I let the car idle for about 15-20 minutes, and the pressures slowly dropped to the 20-21 PSI range, but held there for the next 10 minutes, oil temperature still ~180*F. I blipped the throttle a few times to see what it would do in the upper RPM, and it stayed above 60 PSI. it idled back down to 20-21 PSI, so i decided to go for another drive. About 10 minutes into this drive, i looked over and saw 30 PSI at 3500 RPMs I tried to hit Vtec crossover and oil pressure dropped down to 18-19 PSI, so i pushed my clutch in and the oil pressure dropped to 0-2 PSI, so I coasted to a stop and checked the mechanical, it was reading 0 PSI. Oil temperature was still at ~180*F, Coolant was in the 175*F range. I shut the car off and let it sit for ~10 minutes on the side of the road, and then started it back up. Oil pressure came up to about 10-12 PSI at idle, and i limped it home, oil pressure staying around 40 PSI again headed home.
I have a few things in mind i'd like to check in the next few days when I get time;
I plan to pull the oil pan off and check for an oil pump obstruction, check the oil pump it's self for damage, and check to make sure all my oil squirters are intact and tight (I have had one fall off on my RSX before).
I would like to bypass my oil cooler all together, although my mechanical gauge is pre-filter, pre-cooler and reads a low PSI as well, but I would like to eliminate a blockage in the cooler being the culprit.
I am also going to try using Rotella 15w40.
As i Stated, the oil did not have any metal particles what so ever in it, but I should check bearing clearances while the pan is off.
I am just having a tough time trying to figure out why all of a sudden, I am seeing a drastic shift change in pressures, and why it isn't consistent with oil temperature. It seems to more so be an issue after putting miles on, while all else is equal, and at no point did the factory oil light even flicker, and oil pressure is instantly there on start-up, no lag at all waiting for oil pressure. The car also never sounded like it had a lack of oil. oil level is good and there is no external oil leaks.
Any thoughts, advice or things to look for would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
2000 AP1 engine with upgraded Oil squirters, Oil cooler, Oil filter relocation kit, and a turbo on Pump 93. car has 46,000 on the odometer, 7,000 of it turbo'ed.
Innovate MTX-D Oil Pressure/temperature gauge setup.
Normal oil Pressure/temperatures for my car:
Cold start up ( <100*F): 40-45 PSI at idle.
Warm before driving (~140*F): 35-40 PSI at idle.
After driving for a while(170-180*F): 25-30 PSI at idle.
Oil Temperatures above 210*F (Up to 240*F): 20-25 PSI at idle.
Warm or cold, my oil pressure is normally 70-75 at 3K RPM, and drops down to 60-65 in VTEC.
About 2 months ago, I had an oil temperature excursion to about 250*F, but Coolant temperature has stayed in the 185-190*F range.
About 3 weeks ago, my oil pressure started dropping off while warm. I noticed it while coasting to a stop and my gauge started blinking 5-6 PSI. i immediately pulled over and checked the oil level and looked for leaks and found nothing.I babied the car home and noticed the oil pressure never came above 40 PSI while driving home. Once i got the car home, my oil pressure had dropd to 0 PSI at idle, but the stock light never came on. my first thought was a faulty pressure sender on my innovate unit, but had no way to test this yet. After some research, I did an oil/filter change using my normal AmsOil 10w30 signature series, cut my old filter up looking for metal, and strained my used oil through a paper filter. There was no meal particles in the oil filter, in he used oil, or on my magnetic drain plug, but i did notice the oil had thinned quite a bit and had a feint fuel smell, so I drained the majority of my cooler and relocation lines as well, but not the cooler it's self. I started the car and let it get to operating temperature and let my oil get to ~150*F, and my oil pressure was great, my normal 35-40 PSI. I then went on a 2 week long business trip.
Fast forward to today, I wanted to take my car out for one of the last times this year, so I started it, Oil pressure was 40-45. I went into my house and let the car warm up for ~25 minutes. when I went back out to my car, I immediately noticed my oil pressure gauge flashing 14 PSI.Oil temperature was up to ~160, and coolant was ~170. I decided to take the car for a dive and see what it would do. Once i feathered the throttle, all seemed well, oil pressure shot up to ~65 PSI before 2000 RPM. the first 5 minutes of the drive went well, oil pressure stayed above 60 the whole time, until i came to my first stop. Oil pressure dropped back down to 5-6 PSI at idle (oil was up to ~180*F), I turned around and headed home. On my way home, my oil pressure would not come above 40 PSI again. Once home, I decided to take my Fuel pressure gauge (mechanical) and plug it into my Oil filter relocation block (pre-filter PSI, pre-cooler PSI)) and started my car up. It was still up to temperature from the prior drive, and oil was still at 180*F. My oil pressure came right up to 30-31 PSI on the Digital, and 30 PSI line on the mechanical. I let the car idle for about 15-20 minutes, and the pressures slowly dropped to the 20-21 PSI range, but held there for the next 10 minutes, oil temperature still ~180*F. I blipped the throttle a few times to see what it would do in the upper RPM, and it stayed above 60 PSI. it idled back down to 20-21 PSI, so i decided to go for another drive. About 10 minutes into this drive, i looked over and saw 30 PSI at 3500 RPMs I tried to hit Vtec crossover and oil pressure dropped down to 18-19 PSI, so i pushed my clutch in and the oil pressure dropped to 0-2 PSI, so I coasted to a stop and checked the mechanical, it was reading 0 PSI. Oil temperature was still at ~180*F, Coolant was in the 175*F range. I shut the car off and let it sit for ~10 minutes on the side of the road, and then started it back up. Oil pressure came up to about 10-12 PSI at idle, and i limped it home, oil pressure staying around 40 PSI again headed home.
I have a few things in mind i'd like to check in the next few days when I get time;
I plan to pull the oil pan off and check for an oil pump obstruction, check the oil pump it's self for damage, and check to make sure all my oil squirters are intact and tight (I have had one fall off on my RSX before).
I would like to bypass my oil cooler all together, although my mechanical gauge is pre-filter, pre-cooler and reads a low PSI as well, but I would like to eliminate a blockage in the cooler being the culprit.
I am also going to try using Rotella 15w40.
As i Stated, the oil did not have any metal particles what so ever in it, but I should check bearing clearances while the pan is off.
I am just having a tough time trying to figure out why all of a sudden, I am seeing a drastic shift change in pressures, and why it isn't consistent with oil temperature. It seems to more so be an issue after putting miles on, while all else is equal, and at no point did the factory oil light even flicker, and oil pressure is instantly there on start-up, no lag at all waiting for oil pressure. The car also never sounded like it had a lack of oil. oil level is good and there is no external oil leaks.
Any thoughts, advice or things to look for would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
10-14-2016, 08:28 PM
#2
Im no guru but I would also check the "filter" at the vtec solenoid.
Since you have 2 guages with the same reading we can put that aside for now.
The oil pump was one of my guess even with the low miles , I have a hard time figuring how a loose squirter or a missing one would cause that non consistent problem ...
I have seen oil sandwich plate bolt loosen over time with no leak. I don't know your setup but could the oil bypass let's say the oil filter (relocated ) , the oil cooler or your sensor ??? Where is the sensor located.
Since you have 2 guages with the same reading we can put that aside for now.
The oil pump was one of my guess even with the low miles , I have a hard time figuring how a loose squirter or a missing one would cause that non consistent problem ...
I have seen oil sandwich plate bolt loosen over time with no leak. I don't know your setup but could the oil bypass let's say the oil filter (relocated ) , the oil cooler or your sensor ??? Where is the sensor located.
10-14-2016, 08:29 PM
#3
Originally Posted by Sylvain2000
Im no guru but I would also check the "filter" at the vtec solenoid. Since you have 2 guages with the same reading we can put that aside for now. The oil pump was one of my guess even with the low miles , I have a hard time figuring how a loose squirter or a missing one would cause that non consistent problem ... I have seen oil sandwich plate bolt loosen over time with no leak. I don't know your setup but could the oil bypass let's say the oil filter (relocated ) , the oil cooler or your sensor in an adaptor ??? Where is the sensor located.
10-14-2016, 09:39 PM
#4
The innovate oil pressure sensor is in place of the stock sensor, which is after the filter. The OEM oil pressure sensor is in my turbo feed line, which is T'ed off from the filter relocation return line back to the motor. The mechanical gauge was on the filter relocation feed line to the filter.
I had a thought that I may have allowed my oil lines to get too hot (run next to the turbo manifold) but I already pulled them off, verified they were in good condition, and even hooked them up to my garden hose and verified a very good flow through them.
Given that the pressure was low entering the filter, and the line feeding the filter is in good condition, I am also leaning towards the oil pump beginning to quit, but will continue to troubleshoot further. Do you know what would cause a low mileage oil pump to up and quit like that? I was under the impression s2000 oil pumps were very stout.
I will check the VTEC screen. Thank you for the suggestion.
I had a thought that I may have allowed my oil lines to get too hot (run next to the turbo manifold) but I already pulled them off, verified they were in good condition, and even hooked them up to my garden hose and verified a very good flow through them.
Given that the pressure was low entering the filter, and the line feeding the filter is in good condition, I am also leaning towards the oil pump beginning to quit, but will continue to troubleshoot further. Do you know what would cause a low mileage oil pump to up and quit like that? I was under the impression s2000 oil pumps were very stout.
I will check the VTEC screen. Thank you for the suggestion.
10-14-2016, 10:11 PM
#5
If your turbo I would up your viscosity. If u find nothing in VTEC gasket and filter and either checking oil pan. An OA would help to, but that's my first guess and swapping oil pumps before things get worse.
I'm buying and shipping balladesports motuls 40 weight because no one carries good oil here on island. At least none I can find.
I'm buying and shipping balladesports motuls 40 weight because no one carries good oil here on island. At least none I can find.
10-15-2016, 04:52 AM
#7
I am turbo, yes. I have always used Amsoil 10w30 signature series in the car. It had Amsoil 10w30 in it when the issue happened, and the first thing I did was changed it out for fresh Amsoil 10w30. I'm not opposed to running a thicker weight or a different oil, but I don't think it's an oil weight/viscosity issue. The Amsoil can take the temperature beating, and i had an oil analysis done in July that showed the oil was well within specification and its life span. Running Rotella 15w40 is on my list of troubleshooting.
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10-15-2016, 06:08 AM
#8
I should have said more though. I do t think your issue is oil issue. That's what sucks. Like others said. Maybe oil pump maybe the vtec or oil pick up screen. If both Guages are working then def something wrong.
I'm on mobile site what year car? Aem or flashpro? If flashpro I thought vtec won't engage unless car has oil pressure.
I'm on mobile site what year car? Aem or flashpro? If flashpro I thought vtec won't engage unless car has oil pressure.
10-15-2016, 07:29 AM
#9
It is a 2000, with Kpro. VTEC pressure switch is disabled, but I believe it only needs 20 PSI anyways.
I have my pan off now, the only thing I see so far is there is some RTV bits in the oil screen, maybe 1/5 of the screen had RTV imbedded in it. No RTV in the bottom of the pan, no metal shaving or even a hint of glittering. Oil squirrels are all intact and tight. Rod bearing caps are tight and have no play (haven't checked clearance yet). I am debating pulling the oil pump or putting it back together now, I have cleaned the screen thoroughly and got about a quarter sized pile of RTV off of it. I'm thinking that was the issue, but I don't see how that would be intermittent, it is either plugged or it isn't.
Pulling the oil pump is a chore for my setup, I will have to remove the turbo, along with all the normal things. No visible damage on pump and chain/tensioner is tight.
I have my pan off now, the only thing I see so far is there is some RTV bits in the oil screen, maybe 1/5 of the screen had RTV imbedded in it. No RTV in the bottom of the pan, no metal shaving or even a hint of glittering. Oil squirrels are all intact and tight. Rod bearing caps are tight and have no play (haven't checked clearance yet). I am debating pulling the oil pump or putting it back together now, I have cleaned the screen thoroughly and got about a quarter sized pile of RTV off of it. I'm thinking that was the issue, but I don't see how that would be intermittent, it is either plugged or it isn't.
Pulling the oil pump is a chore for my setup, I will have to remove the turbo, along with all the normal things. No visible damage on pump and chain/tensioner is tight.