Richmond 6 speed Help
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Originally Posted by dsddcd,Nov 19 2010, 06:57 AM
Just did some searches using the search feature.
PAR makes an equally good set of gears for our transmission at half the price.
Several of the trans options you guys are talking about, you have forgotten to ask about RPM limitations, make sure you don't miss this one, V8's do spin 9000K usually.
PAR Thread
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=142&t=775189
Another thread just like this
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=142&t=739837
PAR makes an equally good set of gears for our transmission at half the price.
Several of the trans options you guys are talking about, you have forgotten to ask about RPM limitations, make sure you don't miss this one, V8's do spin 9000K usually.
PAR Thread
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=142&t=775189
Another thread just like this
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=142&t=739837
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I'd like to jump into this discussion because I've learned a lot about alternate transmissions doing some stuff for a customer. Help keep this thread focused on the technical stuff since I'm not here selling anything.
The S2k is a RWD car with decent room in the transmission tunnel, so putting any other RWD transmission in is simply a matter of adapting it to the back of the motor and dealing with the clutch/flywheel/clutch release situation. This of course assumes you aren't installing something giant and cutting the tunnel up. Those are all fairly straightforward design/machining operations. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to spend the money to figure this stuff out. It is quite easy to eclipse the cost of a PPG gearset, so that turns a lot of people off in the quest for a cheaper,stronger solution.
We looked at doing a PPG gearset, but there were two things I didn't like - 1. Cost - This by itself is really a non-issue for what you get. It's a fair price for the product, but the problem I had was that it's a lot of money for something that's hard to get. When something breaks, they don't have spares on the shelf, and they are on the other side of the world. The lead time for spares is too long in my opinion. This isn't a dig at PPG, it just wasn't going to work for us. 2. - The stock trans is still mostly there: shaft lengths, gear size, bearing size, etc. Obviously there are big benefits to using a gearset in the stock case like shifter placement, driveshaft, sensors, etc., but for me, those were outweighed by the desire for something beefier.
I ended up putting a G-force T-5 (synchro version) in the car, and it has been good so far. It's compact, readily available, and strong. It ended up being very competitive in total cost to the PPG stuff, and it's very easy to maintain and get parts for. The issue with all transmissions like that is how you adapt it to the engine. I did a lot of work on the stock bellhousing so we could retain all the stock flywheel/pressure plate/throwout bearing/release fork, etc. The clutch is an S2k disc with the appropriate T-5 hub. It's not rocket science, just a big plate welded to a modified S2k bellhousing and a few machining operations. One of the best things about this combo is that you can pull the trans in about 20 minutes without removing the bellhousing.
I see threads like this come up very often, and the story is always the same - How can I put something stronger in the car for less money than the PPG gears? It's hard to do if you are going to use a new, strong transmission. Sure, you could put a junkyard T-5 or beat-down T56 in a car for less, but that's not really a comparable solution. For a new racing-oriented transmission, it's hard to get anything useful for less than $3k for the trans itself. Then you still have to get it into the car and working. There is no $1000 transmission solution, unfortunately.
One other often-overlooked issue: gearing. There are VERY few transmissions that you can adapt that will work properly with the stock rear end ratios because of the stock transmission's drop gear. The solution is a very big ring and pinion ratio. We are using a 5.12 in a Cobra 8.8 diff. You can get similar ratios for the stock rear end, but the pinion gets pretty small as the ratio gets higher...
Andris Laivins
The S2k is a RWD car with decent room in the transmission tunnel, so putting any other RWD transmission in is simply a matter of adapting it to the back of the motor and dealing with the clutch/flywheel/clutch release situation. This of course assumes you aren't installing something giant and cutting the tunnel up. Those are all fairly straightforward design/machining operations. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to spend the money to figure this stuff out. It is quite easy to eclipse the cost of a PPG gearset, so that turns a lot of people off in the quest for a cheaper,stronger solution.
We looked at doing a PPG gearset, but there were two things I didn't like - 1. Cost - This by itself is really a non-issue for what you get. It's a fair price for the product, but the problem I had was that it's a lot of money for something that's hard to get. When something breaks, they don't have spares on the shelf, and they are on the other side of the world. The lead time for spares is too long in my opinion. This isn't a dig at PPG, it just wasn't going to work for us. 2. - The stock trans is still mostly there: shaft lengths, gear size, bearing size, etc. Obviously there are big benefits to using a gearset in the stock case like shifter placement, driveshaft, sensors, etc., but for me, those were outweighed by the desire for something beefier.
I ended up putting a G-force T-5 (synchro version) in the car, and it has been good so far. It's compact, readily available, and strong. It ended up being very competitive in total cost to the PPG stuff, and it's very easy to maintain and get parts for. The issue with all transmissions like that is how you adapt it to the engine. I did a lot of work on the stock bellhousing so we could retain all the stock flywheel/pressure plate/throwout bearing/release fork, etc. The clutch is an S2k disc with the appropriate T-5 hub. It's not rocket science, just a big plate welded to a modified S2k bellhousing and a few machining operations. One of the best things about this combo is that you can pull the trans in about 20 minutes without removing the bellhousing.
I see threads like this come up very often, and the story is always the same - How can I put something stronger in the car for less money than the PPG gears? It's hard to do if you are going to use a new, strong transmission. Sure, you could put a junkyard T-5 or beat-down T56 in a car for less, but that's not really a comparable solution. For a new racing-oriented transmission, it's hard to get anything useful for less than $3k for the trans itself. Then you still have to get it into the car and working. There is no $1000 transmission solution, unfortunately.
One other often-overlooked issue: gearing. There are VERY few transmissions that you can adapt that will work properly with the stock rear end ratios because of the stock transmission's drop gear. The solution is a very big ring and pinion ratio. We are using a 5.12 in a Cobra 8.8 diff. You can get similar ratios for the stock rear end, but the pinion gets pretty small as the ratio gets higher...
Andris Laivins
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Lavins, I had been considering your setup for some time but it does not suit me well as I already have an inline pro diff kit and will not be re-gearing a 300zx differential to 5.12. Also, the loss of the 6th gear is a bit of a nuisance but not a huge deal. Lastly, I have seen through some online reading, not personal experience that g-force T5's can be unreliable for higher hp applications. I am looking for something to help address some of these issues as well.
On another note, is it possible to only change out the first few gears in our trannies for stronger ones along with the reduction shaft or do you have to upgrade everything? If that was possible it could make some of these gearset solutions a bit more affordable.
On another note, is it possible to only change out the first few gears in our trannies for stronger ones along with the reduction shaft or do you have to upgrade everything? If that was possible it could make some of these gearset solutions a bit more affordable.
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From: Around
Originally Posted by andris,Nov 19 2010, 07:31 AM
I'd like to jump into this discussion because I've learned a lot about alternate transmissions doing some stuff for a customer. Help keep this thread focused on the technical stuff since I'm not here selling anything.
The S2k is a RWD car with decent room in the transmission tunnel, so putting any other RWD transmission in is simply a matter of adapting it to the back of the motor and dealing with the clutch/flywheel/clutch release situation. This of course assumes you aren't installing something giant and cutting the tunnel up. Those are all fairly straightforward design/machining operations. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to spend the money to figure this stuff out. It is quite easy to eclipse the cost of a PPG gearset, so that turns a lot of people off in the quest for a cheaper,stronger solution.
We looked at doing a PPG gearset, but there were two things I didn't like - 1. Cost - This by itself is really a non-issue for what you get. It's a fair price for the product, but the problem I had was that it's a lot of money for something that's hard to get. When something breaks, they don't have spares on the shelf, and they are on the other side of the world. The lead time for spares is too long in my opinion. This isn't a dig at PPG, it just wasn't going to work for us. 2. - The stock trans is still mostly there: shaft lengths, gear size, bearing size, etc. Obviously there are big benefits to using a gearset in the stock case like shifter placement, driveshaft, sensors, etc., but for me, those were outweighed by the desire for something beefier.
I ended up putting a G-force T-5 (synchro version) in the car, and it has been good so far. It's compact, readily available, and strong. It ended up being very competitive in total cost to the PPG stuff, and it's very easy to maintain and get parts for. The issue with all transmissions like that is how you adapt it to the engine. I did a lot of work on the stock bellhousing so we could retain all the stock flywheel/pressure plate/throwout bearing/release fork, etc. The clutch is an S2k disc with the appropriate T-5 hub. It's not rocket science, just a big plate welded to a modified S2k bellhousing and a few machining operations. One of the best things about this combo is that you can pull the trans in about 20 minutes without removing the bellhousing.
I see threads like this come up very often, and the story is always the same - How can I put something stronger in the car for less money than the PPG gears? It's hard to do if you are going to use a new, strong transmission. Sure, you could put a junkyard T-5 or beat-down T56 in a car for less, but that's not really a comparable solution. For a new racing-oriented transmission, it's hard to get anything useful for less than $3k for the trans itself. Then you still have to get it into the car and working. There is no $1000 transmission solution, unfortunately.
One other often-overlooked issue: gearing. There are VERY few transmissions that you can adapt that will work properly with the stock rear end ratios because of the stock transmission's drop gear. The solution is a very big ring and pinion ratio. We are using a 5.12 in a Cobra 8.8 diff. You can get similar ratios for the stock rear end, but the pinion gets pretty small as the ratio gets higher...
Andris Laivins
The S2k is a RWD car with decent room in the transmission tunnel, so putting any other RWD transmission in is simply a matter of adapting it to the back of the motor and dealing with the clutch/flywheel/clutch release situation. This of course assumes you aren't installing something giant and cutting the tunnel up. Those are all fairly straightforward design/machining operations. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to spend the money to figure this stuff out. It is quite easy to eclipse the cost of a PPG gearset, so that turns a lot of people off in the quest for a cheaper,stronger solution.
We looked at doing a PPG gearset, but there were two things I didn't like - 1. Cost - This by itself is really a non-issue for what you get. It's a fair price for the product, but the problem I had was that it's a lot of money for something that's hard to get. When something breaks, they don't have spares on the shelf, and they are on the other side of the world. The lead time for spares is too long in my opinion. This isn't a dig at PPG, it just wasn't going to work for us. 2. - The stock trans is still mostly there: shaft lengths, gear size, bearing size, etc. Obviously there are big benefits to using a gearset in the stock case like shifter placement, driveshaft, sensors, etc., but for me, those were outweighed by the desire for something beefier.
I ended up putting a G-force T-5 (synchro version) in the car, and it has been good so far. It's compact, readily available, and strong. It ended up being very competitive in total cost to the PPG stuff, and it's very easy to maintain and get parts for. The issue with all transmissions like that is how you adapt it to the engine. I did a lot of work on the stock bellhousing so we could retain all the stock flywheel/pressure plate/throwout bearing/release fork, etc. The clutch is an S2k disc with the appropriate T-5 hub. It's not rocket science, just a big plate welded to a modified S2k bellhousing and a few machining operations. One of the best things about this combo is that you can pull the trans in about 20 minutes without removing the bellhousing.
I see threads like this come up very often, and the story is always the same - How can I put something stronger in the car for less money than the PPG gears? It's hard to do if you are going to use a new, strong transmission. Sure, you could put a junkyard T-5 or beat-down T56 in a car for less, but that's not really a comparable solution. For a new racing-oriented transmission, it's hard to get anything useful for less than $3k for the trans itself. Then you still have to get it into the car and working. There is no $1000 transmission solution, unfortunately.
One other often-overlooked issue: gearing. There are VERY few transmissions that you can adapt that will work properly with the stock rear end ratios because of the stock transmission's drop gear. The solution is a very big ring and pinion ratio. We are using a 5.12 in a Cobra 8.8 diff. You can get similar ratios for the stock rear end, but the pinion gets pretty small as the ratio gets higher...
Andris Laivins
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From: Mill Creek WA
Just shot Mazworx and email about a plate for something like a z32/z33/t56 hopefully they have some ideas. They already make a k to gm plate so I think an f would be pretty straight forward for them too.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Awesome, sounds good! The problem with the other adapter plates is that they are suited for f20 swaps in other vehicles and the angle of the engine in the engine bay is changed (actually it is rotated). This causes the shifter mechanism to be in the wrong place.
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