SOS E85
02-19-2019, 06:34 PM
#1
SOS E85 Flexfuel
I am currently tuned for 91 octane running a novi 1200 with a 3.2" pulley. At my elevation of 5500ft, I am making 12-13 psi which is as much as I want to push it for 91 octane.
I've been toying with the idea of switch to e85 but want the ability to run 91. Because I don't want to run any more boost on 91, will I see much benefit from e85 without changing pulley size? Are there any tuning strategies so that I could run a smaller pulley for e85 but lower boost when I am on 91? I was thinking maybe limiting revs on 91 so that it won't hit full boost, or so kind of boost bypass valve. Has anyone done this and was it worthwhile? I am currently running AEM Infinity.
I've been toying with the idea of switch to e85 but want the ability to run 91. Because I don't want to run any more boost on 91, will I see much benefit from e85 without changing pulley size? Are there any tuning strategies so that I could run a smaller pulley for e85 but lower boost when I am on 91? I was thinking maybe limiting revs on 91 so that it won't hit full boost, or so kind of boost bypass valve. Has anyone done this and was it worthwhile? I am currently running AEM Infinity.
02-19-2019, 09:18 PM
#2
I’m using the sos flex fuel kit with aem series 2. A true flex fuel tune is one of the best mod for any high power turbo car. My aem series 2 will automatically raise or lower the boost and raised and lower the timing depending on how much ethanol is in the tank. I dynoed at 425whp at 13 psi on 91 octane and 588whp on E85 at 20psi maxing out the gtx3076r turbo. When tuning for E85 we got to 500whp on only advancing the timing before even upping the boost from the 13psi 91 octane tune.
with a flex fuel super chargers setup you won’t have the benefit of the ecu raising the boost but it can and will advance the timing when there is E85 in the tank and this will still provide significant gains in hp. A novi 1200 typically makes about 400whp on 91 octane and over 500whp maxed out on E85 with a high boost pulley. With E85 and with a 91 octane sized boost pully you will probably be somewhere in the middle. Probably 50whp over your 91 octane tune.
if you plan to run E85 the majority of the time and only want the ability to run 91 octane in rare emergencies I would just get a flex fuel tune with the high boost 20psi pully and max out the novi1200 and when you have to run 91 octane just don’t rev the car out until can can pump E85 in again.
with a flex fuel super chargers setup you won’t have the benefit of the ecu raising the boost but it can and will advance the timing when there is E85 in the tank and this will still provide significant gains in hp. A novi 1200 typically makes about 400whp on 91 octane and over 500whp maxed out on E85 with a high boost pulley. With E85 and with a 91 octane sized boost pully you will probably be somewhere in the middle. Probably 50whp over your 91 octane tune.
if you plan to run E85 the majority of the time and only want the ability to run 91 octane in rare emergencies I would just get a flex fuel tune with the high boost 20psi pully and max out the novi1200 and when you have to run 91 octane just don’t rev the car out until can can pump E85 in again.
02-20-2019, 04:38 PM
#3
1) Areas that are NOT knock limited, you really won't gain much... because your tuner tuned it to your engine's MBT (maximum break torque)... hopefully
a. You don't leave those cells/area of map untouched though. To achieve pump power with E85 you might need to retard timing due to ethanol's higher combustion speed
2) Areas you ARE knock limited are upper kPa/Load/Boost. Your tuner was knock limited and couldn't reach MBT. E85 can now give you significant gains by allowing ignition advance to find MBT.
a. Your combustion temps and EGRs will be better due to ethanol's latent heat of vaporization. It absorbs heat.
3) I think your AEM ECU will have 1 map for pump gas and 1 for full E85. Full tank of E85 is 100% blend so it'll use ethanol map. Now say you're 50% blend due to mixing fuels, your ECU will take an average of both tables.
One thing you might notice is ethanol uses up to40% more fuel (load, blend and tuner's choice of target AFR will play a role in that %), hence greater demand on your fuel system. It's corrosive so make sure you have the right components plus it's not as good of a lubricant as pump gas. If storing your car with E85 use corrosion inhibitors as it absorbs moisture.
I'm told that the greatest anti-knock gains seem to be 0-40% ethanol. 40-70% are meh and 70%+ ethanol mix shows almost no gains over lower mixtures. E85's knock resistance is in line with ultra expensive 116-120 octane race fuels which is impressive.
I don't know what numbers you can expect with our platform, but the guy above me seems to.
a. You don't leave those cells/area of map untouched though. To achieve pump power with E85 you might need to retard timing due to ethanol's higher combustion speed
2) Areas you ARE knock limited are upper kPa/Load/Boost. Your tuner was knock limited and couldn't reach MBT. E85 can now give you significant gains by allowing ignition advance to find MBT.
a. Your combustion temps and EGRs will be better due to ethanol's latent heat of vaporization. It absorbs heat.
3) I think your AEM ECU will have 1 map for pump gas and 1 for full E85. Full tank of E85 is 100% blend so it'll use ethanol map. Now say you're 50% blend due to mixing fuels, your ECU will take an average of both tables.
One thing you might notice is ethanol uses up to40% more fuel (load, blend and tuner's choice of target AFR will play a role in that %), hence greater demand on your fuel system. It's corrosive so make sure you have the right components plus it's not as good of a lubricant as pump gas. If storing your car with E85 use corrosion inhibitors as it absorbs moisture.
I'm told that the greatest anti-knock gains seem to be 0-40% ethanol. 40-70% are meh and 70%+ ethanol mix shows almost no gains over lower mixtures. E85's knock resistance is in line with ultra expensive 116-120 octane race fuels which is impressive.
I don't know what numbers you can expect with our platform, but the guy above me seems to.
02-20-2019, 05:07 PM
#4
From personal experience of running a dual map tune, when I tuned for 91oct at 10psi I made 360whp. Upon throwing in E85 and changing nothing hardware related, just tuning, it gained 50whp to put it at 410whp at the same 10psi (returnless fuel system prevented me from going any higher)
02-20-2019, 05:15 PM
#5
As an alternative you could run a water/meth injection system. The potential benefits to power and cooler combustion temps is better then race fuel or E85. You still get the same mpg as you did before since your still on pump. The only potential compromise is you now have a tank in your trunk. I just check/top it off when i fill my gas tank.
02-20-2019, 07:07 PM
#6
This is interesting info, are you an engineer? I didn't know it was as simple as two maps blended. I think the route im going to take is to up the boost and do e85+91 tune. What components should I change to prevent corrosion?
02-21-2019, 02:47 AM
#7
E85 is not corrosive, but hygroscopic.
Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Alcohol - Injector Dynamics
If you store your car for extended periods of time, then it would be a good idea to do that with regular gas.
Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Alcohol - Injector Dynamics
If you store your car for extended periods of time, then it would be a good idea to do that with regular gas.
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02-21-2019, 05:29 AM
#8
E85 is not corrosive, but hygroscopic.
Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Alcohol - Injector Dynamics
If you store your car for extended periods of time, then it would be a good idea to do that with regular gas.
Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Alcohol - Injector Dynamics
If you store your car for extended periods of time, then it would be a good idea to do that with regular gas.
02-21-2019, 05:54 AM
#9
You've got to have a flex-fuel sensor if you want your ECU to know the blend, otherwise you'll just run two different maps. Your 100% blend table will have a much different stoichiometric AFR, for example full E85 @ idle is 9.75afr vs pump 14.7. For hardware, just make sure pump and injectors were built with ethanol in mind, just as the gentleman above shared a link about ID injectors which are great.
02-21-2019, 07:34 AM
#10
1) Areas that are NOT knock limited, you really won't gain much... because your tuner tuned it to your engine's MBT (maximum break torque)... hopefully
One thing you might notice is ethanol uses up to 40% more fuel, hence greater demand on your fuel system. It's corrosive so make sure you have the right components plus it's not as good of a lubricant as pump gas. If storing your car with E85 use corrosion inhibitors as it absorbs moisture.
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One thing you might notice is ethanol uses up to 40% more fuel, hence greater demand on your fuel system. It's corrosive so make sure you have the right components plus it's not as good of a lubricant as pump gas. If storing your car with E85 use corrosion inhibitors as it absorbs moisture.
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