Thanks in advance for all the help i get with this issue, clearly im not the guy who posts everyday sadly but i typically dont know the answers lol i do get alot of info off the site however and thanks to all the smart people with detailed DIY's with pictures!

OK i have an 02 with about 42,000 miles. I put on the Greddy turbo kit about 4,000 miles ago and have an HKS boost controller pushing about 12.5 pounds, fully tuned on Meth, timing advanced via e-manage ultimate (thanks to the meth), test pipe, inline pro exhaust, running perfectly.

Went to Afghan, car sat 5 months, and came back and decided to do a bunch of stuff before taking her off the stands since it had been sitting anyway. So needed the titanium valve retainers since i have an AP1 turbo so put those on the list along with new double valve springs. Figured while im at it may as well do the 3mm head gasket. So got Science of Speed springs and retainers and inline pro head gasket, also went ahead and got the Hondata intake gasket.

So i do all the work get everything in, went very smooth, no issues. My first time doing alot of it but i would consider myself an advanced enough to do the job carefully and correctly.

Put the CAMS back on making sure to line everything up right per the wonderful DIY and the HELM manual and torqued and all good. The small issue is that the timing gear must be "clocked" to compensate for the thicker gasket so it was not perfect perfect alignment and i assumed thats why. Started the car, started right up but was running rough and more "throaty" out of the exhaust was idling ok and when i reved it a bit it sounded fine. New valve springs EXTREMELY loud (did valve adjustment per specs before starting) very loud tick that more or less went away with throttle but pretty much dies after coming off of throttle.

So i assume the timing is off and pull it back apart and move the exhaust 1 tooth down, run it by hand a few times and it looks right on and i get it back together and ..... wont start though it turns over fine, so timing definitely off. Make another adjustment, another down ext and one down int, run it by hand, looks great..wont start. Take it apart again decide the int needs to be up 1. Didnt expect to do it three times so wasn't really keeping track until now when we tried to recall the movements we made but at this point there is a small possibility that it is back where it started but i want to say we ended up with the exh down 1 tooth. Got it back together and started right up. but with the same problem (more or less, cmaybe it runs just a little better now), a little rough, a little smoke (black), a little throaty and very very loud spring tick goes away with throttle but dies coming off throttle. Looked pretty much right on when looking at alignment, i know it has to be very perfect but had to take into account the clocking of the gear i would think. Every adjustment was only one tooth at a time and it wasn't running at all which leads me to believe if it isn't on right it wont even start.

So does this seem like a timing problem that needs to be adjusted or a tuning problem where it needs to be re-tuned from the changes? I was under the impression that the thicker head gasket was like the meth, didn't really change things until you tuned to it, am i wrong? Of course it needs to be tuned after the changes but i assumed it would run at least good to get it to the tuner.

Thanks again in advance for the help, sorry so long but want to make sure i got all the details in.

Dex

 

if he cams aren't lined up exactly on the timing marks the car won't start period...the thicker headgasket is causing a misfire I would guess see how the injectors and spark are now higher than before...I'd imagine a tune would be the trick...but I'm not positive whether or not theres not another method

 

I have read that it wont start if they aren't right by a few other people as well. That would mean my math is off (certainly possible) and i ended up back where i started.

I also read that the dealer put a guys cams on one tooth off and he drove like that for 200 miles but that was the only story i read of them being wrong potentially and actually starting.

 

why do a headgasket on a greddy kit? Are you changing turbo kits soon? Do you have an upgraded turbo/mani?

 

Because i was in there anyway and with the meth i get alot more out of it, i push 12.5 PSI for 300 RWHP with thicker HG and lower compression, should be able to push more safely (prob to the limit of the turbo at which point i will upgrade) just like to keep everything safe when running her, especially at higher than base boost.

 

Stock PCM equipped cars WILL NOT start with either camshaft out of time. I've messed with this years ago and the PCM will not fire the coils because it can't figure out where TDC 1 is with the cam sensor inputs not matching up.

Did you remove the pin and clock the cam chain gear to compensate for the 3mm gasket?

 

Yes i clocked the cam chain gear to compensate which is why i assumed it might not line up perfectly.

I do have the e-manage hooked up (obviously) so not sure if that, including the advancement of the timing that was put into the map by the tuner would allow it to fire if one or both of the cams were not lined up correctly. I havent done anything else so not sure if thats considered stock PCM or not.

 

You do not have to clock the cam gear but since you did, its fine. You will have to put a timing light on it and set the correct timing up in the Emanage. It's now off because of the 3mm HG.

Here are a few pics to reference so you know you have the cams in correctly.

When the crank timing mark is on the white timing mark, this is what your cams will look like. Intake cam mark will be slightly lower than the exhaust cam mark and idler gear is slightly turned to the right if you notice the marks.



When the crank timing mark is in between the white and red mark, this is where you cam gears will be. Notice that the cam marks are perfectly aligned this way and this is correct. It shows that your crank is slightly advanced in timing when the cams are aligned and in time.




BTW.....Ditch the Hondata intake gasket or you could have problems like I did. I torqued my bolts many times but it would always end up getting loose due to the plastic shrinking under heat. This will cause coolant to leak into the cylinder and cause air bubbles in the system and mimics a blown HG when its not. Stay with the stock gasket.

 

yeah I will second what spoolin said by not having to clock the cam gear. I didnt do it on my car and it made a ton of power and ran perfectly normal. if you do clock it, its fine though and the car will run the same. I would say the way you have it running the timing is right but something else is wrong.

since you are on stock ecu are you getting a check engine light?

 

Thanks for pics and tips. I'm going to pull it off tonight or tomorrow and compare against that. I'll post pics if it doesn't add up Advanced the timing quite a bit with the e-manage so that could have something to do with it now that HG has been changed along with the springs.