EXACTLY. I know damn well that 32psi is WAY out of the league I am shooting for... I will eventually have InlinePRO build my bottom end and maybe up the boost at that time but right now, from what I have seen/read on the boards... I think that roughly 20psi or so is the absolute MAX one should run with a stock bottom end and a 3mm HG. I mean I dont want to be CRAZY cautious but if I wanted fireworks I would buy them... pushing 32psi into my F20C isn't my idea of a good time! lol

what numbers / psi do you think I can safely acheive running the setup I have described... I would like maybe the boys from inline to chime in as well... they know the limits of their mani and many different turbo sizes better than most...

Thanks for all the great posts!

 

20 psi would most likely be the max psi you'd want to run with your setup, but depending on the tune (how much timing is added/taken away, your EGTs, etc), and depending on your type of climate....I'd say probably anywhere between 415-470whp. I know thats a large gap, but look at everyone running a gt3076R on this forum and how widely they range in power.

 

well I hope its closer to the 470 side of the range... we'll soon find out!

 

I searched for 20 minutes to try and find the original thread, but to no avail. I do remember that the turbo was a GT3076R and the manifold was tubular. Even if you could squeeze 500 rwhp out of the turbo, the turbo would be operating so far out of it's efficiency range that your tuner might not want to risk it. It would be adding so much heat to the air that a safe tune would require a lot of timing to be taken out.

Just keep in mind, a GT3076R with the larger housings will make more power at a similar boost level than a GT35R for a large majority of the powerband. The very upper reaches of the engine range will show the advantage of the GT35R. The 35R won't give you the mid-range torque mountain evident in 2NR Werks setup.

 

I was hoping the pre-turbine meth injection would help with the heat being added to the air from the turbo operating outside of its effeciency range, fperra pointed me to a very interesting read on the waterinjection forum that says that 50/50 water meth injected pre-turbine can actually cool the air to below ambient temp.... meaning when i runs through your FMIC after being compressed it would actually be heated up!!! Would this be the reason that pre-turbine meth injection is supposed to increase the turbo effeciency map by about 10%? I am anxious to set it up and see what I can make... regardless of what hp level I reach I am certain that it will be an awesome machine. I was just hoping to reach the 500whp level more for my own "bragging rights" lol thanks for all your help and info... I'm pretty much convinced that unless I'm shooting for a dyno queen the 3076rb will out perform a gt35 on the street almost every time. keep the posts coming this thread is very informative!

 

The water/meth injection upstream of the compressor will help to reduce the air temperature through "latent heat of vaporization". Cooler air is more dense, which causes the compressor choke line to "expand", enabling the compressor to move more air at max capacity. The conditions of the air upstream of the compressor play a large part in what the compressor map looks like.

As far as cooling the air below ambient...upstream evaporation will pull heat out of the incoming air, effectively lowering the temperature momentarily. As soon as the air is accelerated (and then slowed down) inside the compressor housing, the pressure and temperature will have increased dramatically. If you could manage to compress the air and decrease the air temperature, you would have to patent your idea ASAP . In your setup, the compressor will still heat the air and an intercooler will still be necessary, the air temperature starting point will just be a little lower pre-compressor. Good for extracting more flow from the compressor, and good for being able to extract more power from the tune (cooler temps = safer tune with aggressive timing).

 

so you are saying that the air once compressed would be heated by the process and therefore benefit from the use of the FMIC? I was going to use one anyway but the below post was taken from a huge thread on pre-turbine meth injection and it says that the charge would actually be heated by running through an intercooler... enjoy!

TAKEN FROM AQUAMIST FORUM:

Quickly. Normal compression is adiabatic, which to a first order means that as the gas is compressed, it gets hot. Now this heat is one of the biggest problems with forced induction, for 2 reasons. Firstly you have to get rid of the heat, and secondly you need to take power out the turbine shaft to perform the heating.( heat is work and work is heat).

Now with the right level of water injection, the heat is removed before it builds up, pushing the compression closer to isothermal (not all the way, but closer). In round terms this is about 30% more efficient (less exhaust gas required for the same boost, or more boost at the same exhaust flow).

problem 1 is that water on its own, whilst having a very high latent heat of vapourisation, doesn't have that good a saturation partial pressure. You can only put so much in before the air is at 100%RH. Above this the water will not cool the air until you compress it in the engine. However, if you add a second fluid, say methanol, Dalton proved with his law of partial pressures that the methanol doesn't know that the air is saturated with water vapour and goes on to vapourise as well. Add a 3rd, such as acetone (all available chemicals) and you get a 3rd tranch of cooling.

The net result is that you may be able to cool the air to slightly below ambient with the right mix. So your compressor becomes more efficient, you can throw away the intercooler, increasing your flow, and in some cases significantly improve the flow from turbo to inlet.

If you leave the intercooler in, you are generally warming the air back up again, so you have to take the plunge and remove it to gain the best benefit.

Its good, very very good.

Bill

 

Wouldn't it be possible to run 32psi on a stock engine with race gas?

I'm planning on using C16 with my GT3076R .82 on a stock engine. How much boost on race gas will it hold?
On normal gas we are planning on doing 14psi (with 2mm HG btw).