2.75 or 3" piping
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From: MD
Originally Posted by H22toF20,Jun 24 2010, 11:32 AM
Do you have any proof of this? Or did you just hear this from someone, who heard it from one, who heard it from someone, who heard it from someone. The internet has turned me into a realist, due to this. I believe nothing until I see proof; in this case a dyno graph.
It has been dyno proven that 3" makes HUGE gains on Honda motors. It has also been proven that open header yields the biggest gains. After seeing countless dyno's proving this, I've come to the realization that everything after the collector is a restriction. After the scavenging, which takes place in the collector, their is nothing else for the exhaust to do to effect flow positively. The few tuners I've talked to about this, agree with my 100%.
It has been dyno proven that 3" makes HUGE gains on Honda motors. It has also been proven that open header yields the biggest gains. After seeing countless dyno's proving this, I've come to the realization that everything after the collector is a restriction. After the scavenging, which takes place in the collector, their is nothing else for the exhaust to do to effect flow positively. The few tuners I've talked to about this, agree with my 100%.
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From: Columbus,OH
Originally Posted by MasterForce,Jun 24 2010, 03:59 PM
So where are your dyno graphs? so where are these HUGE gains on the s2000? last time i checked bolt ons do not give you HUGE gains. what WHP is huge gains to you? also F20C and F22C motors are WAY different than other honda motors. you might get 15-10 whp on exhaust on a civic but u wont get more than maybe in a rare occasion MAX 5-10 whp. And thats pushing it a little up...
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From: Clatskanie, OR
Originally Posted by MasterForce,Jun 24 2010, 11:59 AM
So where are your dyno graphs? so where are these HUGE gains on the s2000? last time i checked bolt ons do not give you HUGE gains. what WHP is huge gains to you? also F20C and F22C motors are WAY different than other honda motors. you might get 15-10 whp on exhaust on a civic but u wont get more than maybe in a rare occasion MAX 5-10 whp. And thats pushing it a little up...
Here's the only dyno plot I have. It's a stock internal H22, 2.5" vs 3" compairison. The results speak for them selves.
http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.php?ExhaustTheory
You guys say the F20/22 is a different motor. But how is it different. It's DOHC VTEC like every other good motor Honda's made. Yes it's build better, puts down more power, has a very high flowing head ect. But this only proves that it needs a bigger exhaust than other factory Honda motors.
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From: Pensacola
With a stock S2000 motor - you won't see much more than 25whp gains (at the top of the power band) with the best designed header-back, full exhaust system. That includes a well designed header, high flow cat or test pipe, and exhaust. A quality setup is not cheap either.
Poorly designed systems will actually hurt performance.
Correct tuning is required to fully take advantage of a higher flowing exhaust.
In the real world (i.e. every day driving) 25 hp won't do a whole lot for you, especially when that top-end gain is at the expense of useable low-end power - which the S2000 already suffers from a lack of.
N/A cars require back pressure and bigger is not better. This is in part true for super charged cars as well.
A turbo-charged car on the other hand essentially requires zero back pressure because the turbo (and turbo manifold) provide all the back pressure the motor needs.
Super-charged cars are a little more complicated and the solution is not as simple as bigger is better. It depends on what you're goal is - street drivable or top-end HP numbers so you can brag to your friends about your last dyno run.
The right amount of back-pressure is what prevents your car from bogging down off the line - which makes it street drivable.
All of this is an oversimplification - as anyone with any professional experience tuning a car will tell you.
As s2k dre correctly stated - it's all in the tune
(...however, "our" cars will not produce 500 hp stock - that takes a LOT of modification and tuning).
Poorly designed systems will actually hurt performance.
Correct tuning is required to fully take advantage of a higher flowing exhaust.
In the real world (i.e. every day driving) 25 hp won't do a whole lot for you, especially when that top-end gain is at the expense of useable low-end power - which the S2000 already suffers from a lack of.
N/A cars require back pressure and bigger is not better. This is in part true for super charged cars as well.
A turbo-charged car on the other hand essentially requires zero back pressure because the turbo (and turbo manifold) provide all the back pressure the motor needs.
Super-charged cars are a little more complicated and the solution is not as simple as bigger is better. It depends on what you're goal is - street drivable or top-end HP numbers so you can brag to your friends about your last dyno run.
The right amount of back-pressure is what prevents your car from bogging down off the line - which makes it street drivable.
All of this is an oversimplification - as anyone with any professional experience tuning a car will tell you.
As s2k dre correctly stated - it's all in the tune
(...however, "our" cars will not produce 500 hp stock - that takes a LOT of modification and tuning).
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From: LaVista, NE
Originally Posted by H22toF20,Jun 25 2010, 12:23 AM
I've gathered my knowlege over many years of browsing forums. So naturally I don't have all of the dyno plots I've seen. I've seen gains with a 3" on stock internal B16's, B18's, H22's, K20's, K24's ect. I have yet to see a compairsion of an F20/22 though. I just put my HKS 75mm on last week and WOW. I've never felt a power increase like this with just a bolt on.
Here's the only dyno plot I have. It's a stock internal H22, 2.5" vs 3" compairison. The results speak for them selves.
http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.php?ExhaustTheory
You guys say the F20/22 is a different motor. But how is it different. It's DOHC VTEC like every other good motor Honda's made. Yes it's build better, puts down more power, has a very high flowing head ect. But this only proves that it needs a bigger exhaust than other factory Honda motors.
Here's the only dyno plot I have. It's a stock internal H22, 2.5" vs 3" compairison. The results speak for them selves.
http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.php?ExhaustTheory
You guys say the F20/22 is a different motor. But how is it different. It's DOHC VTEC like every other good motor Honda's made. Yes it's build better, puts down more power, has a very high flowing head ect. But this only proves that it needs a bigger exhaust than other factory Honda motors.
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From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by slipstream444,Jun 25 2010, 04:03 AM
With a stock S2000 motor - you won't see much more than 25whp gains (at the top of the power band) with the best designed header-back, full exhaust system. That includes a well designed header, high flow cat or test pipe, and exhaust. A quality setup is not cheap either.
Poorly designed systems will actually hurt performance.
Correct tuning is required to fully take advantage of a higher flowing exhaust.
In the real world (i.e. every day driving) 25 hp won't do a whole lot for you, especially when that top-end gain is at the expense of useable low-end power - which the S2000 already suffers from a lack of.
N/A cars require back pressure and bigger is not better. This is in part true for super charged cars as well.
A turbo-charged car on the other hand essentially requires zero back pressure because the turbo (and turbo manifold) provide all the back pressure the motor needs.
Super-charged cars are a little more complicated and the solution is not as simple as bigger is better. It depends on what you're goal is - street drivable or top-end HP numbers so you can brag to your friends about your last dyno run.
The right amount of back-pressure is what prevents your car from bogging down off the line - which makes it street drivable.
All of this is an oversimplification - as anyone with any professional experience tuning a car will tell you.
As s2k dre correctly stated - it's all in the tune
(...however, "our" cars will not produce 500 hp stock - that takes a LOT of modification and tuning).
Poorly designed systems will actually hurt performance.
Correct tuning is required to fully take advantage of a higher flowing exhaust.
In the real world (i.e. every day driving) 25 hp won't do a whole lot for you, especially when that top-end gain is at the expense of useable low-end power - which the S2000 already suffers from a lack of.
N/A cars require back pressure and bigger is not better. This is in part true for super charged cars as well.
A turbo-charged car on the other hand essentially requires zero back pressure because the turbo (and turbo manifold) provide all the back pressure the motor needs.
Super-charged cars are a little more complicated and the solution is not as simple as bigger is better. It depends on what you're goal is - street drivable or top-end HP numbers so you can brag to your friends about your last dyno run.
The right amount of back-pressure is what prevents your car from bogging down off the line - which makes it street drivable.
All of this is an oversimplification - as anyone with any professional experience tuning a car will tell you.
As s2k dre correctly stated - it's all in the tune
(...however, "our" cars will not produce 500 hp stock - that takes a LOT of modification and tuning).
and of course our car will not make 500hp stock. with a large enough turbo, tuning, and a thicker headgasket(to lower the compression a bit) a stock block s2000 can make upwards of 500hp.
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From: MD
Originally Posted by Mike21,Jun 25 2010, 05:53 AM
you're confusing backpressure with velocity. backpressure is always bad. always. maintaining exhaust velocity with correctly sized exhaust pipes is a whole different story. There's always a trade off. especially when a car has such an immense rev range as the f20/f22. an exhaust pipe sized for optimum flow at 3000rpm will be much different than one that's optimum for 9000rpm.
and of course our car will not make 500hp stock. with a large enough turbo, tuning, and a thicker headgasket(to lower the compression a bit) a stock block s2000 can make upwards of 500hp.
and of course our car will not make 500hp stock. with a large enough turbo, tuning, and a thicker headgasket(to lower the compression a bit) a stock block s2000 can make upwards of 500hp.
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Originally Posted by Angerman,Jun 24 2010, 03:56 PM
Putting a fart cannon on your bolt on Honda doesn't make it go in space.
(...however, "our" cars will not produce 500 hp stock - that takes a LOT of modification and tuning).