Hi All,

I am looking at the possibility of purchasing a coilover system for my car. PSS9's seem to be a good option but here are my parameters:

1. It is not a daily driver - more of a weekend run-around

2. AutoX is the only reason to upgrade, I am trying to catch the Evos only about 3 secs behind them now

3. I really don't like a banging hard ride, but then again , it is not the DD

Prime focus is not to lower, but to corner balance and stiffen up somewhat to complement the R compound tires.

PSS9s are reportedly quite good on ride quality - not sure if they are stiff enough for what I am looking for now - max street / AutoX.

However, some of the others I am looking at, specifically these http://www.bcracing-na.com/products/honda.html. seem to have springs rates that look pretty stiff at 12kg/mm, which is about 3 times the AP1.

Is this too stiff for a my goals? It is not an all out racer. Also, at this stiffness, it would seem that the ARB's should need to be bigger also?

Anyone riding around on springs this stiff and regretting it?

Your thoughts welcomed.

 

12k is freaking stiff. However, if your dampers can handle 12k springs, the ride quality shouldn't be un bearable. 12k springs are not exactly unheard of either. Lots of people use this for regular street driving. I know the car isn't a DD, but 12k springs MUST MUST MUST be matched to the correct dampers if you want to enjoy driving the car on the street. Also, if you're auto cross in a slightly bumpy parking lot, you'll definately want nice dampers so your car isn't bouncing into cones.

Damping makes a lot of difference. So make sure the PSS9s can handle that (I'm sure you'll have to get them revalved to do so).

You're 3 seconds behind EVOs in an autox probably because the EVO makes so much damn torque. In my experience, it's hard to put the S2000 into 2nd gear and expect something out of it in an auto cross. So you have to keep shuffling between 1st and 2nd. The only reason I put it into 2nd is because I ran out of gear. I'd have to put it back in 1st for even a 25-30mph section.

Plus the AWD launches.

I think a final drive would make a bigger difference. Something to bring the torque way up.


You'll have to drive much faster and have the car handle much better to crush EVOs at auto cross. The S2000 definately has better handling and better balance (it's also lighter), but the EVO's powerband, and drivetrain layout gives it a HUUUUGE advantage in autocross. Which is why I would suggest the final drive. The handling improvements will definately help out a lot...but they probably wont make as big of a difference as the extra torque.

Crush them at road racing...it's a LOT easier.

 

I am running Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers with 10k springs front and rear. They are stiffer than stock but definitely not harsh. Setting the proper dampening is important as too low and they become very bouncy and too high and it becomes harsh. Mine is a DD too.

I've driven a Lotus Elise before and my current setup is not nearly as harsh as a stock Elise.

 

I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to do any drivetrain modifications for the classes that the S can compete in.

I have only heard good things ab out the PSS9s from autocrossers and people with them on their DD. Just set them close to full stiff and I think you would be more than happy with them.

And for the BC Coilovers, I hear you can get extenders for the rear set that allows you to easily adjust them from the trunk which is a big plus. I bet you would be happy with those too.

 

Well, guys, thanks a lot for your responses. The BC's should be livable I guess, with dampers on soft for the road. I can always go back stock and sell if I really dislike the ride. But at the price on offer, it is almost too good to pass up with some nice features.

B Serious, the 12K is matched by their dampers as it is a BC coilover I am looking at. I have had experience with stiff springs and fairly well matched dampers, but never coilovers. I am actually look to get the 12k/10k f/r combo, as the dampers can handle +/- 2kg/mm from their standard 12k springs.

But as I said, I really don't want a harsh ride, our roads are poor at best, and autoX is 1% of the usage. Well maybe more considering I already don't drive it too much.

So that last 3 seconds is hard eh? So why are Evos and S's in AS class together in US nationals?

All the Evos that beat me are failry heavily modified - big boost etc. Their launch is awesome and all, but I know I can do a stock one, at least pull it in real close with a competent driver in it. They don't like when a Hon Duh is so close to them

Wouldn't the gap be worse on a proper track?

Any thoughts on needing stiffer ARB's to deal with the change in spring /damper stiffness?

 

The 00-01 bars are pretty stiff, but I've heard of autocross guys using a larger front bar.

3 seconds for a race that lasts only 40 seconds or so is pretty significant.

The gap isn't worse when you road race because the S2000 has much nicer handling than the EVO. The S2000 also stops faster (although, the stock to stock brake comparison would show that after a while, the EVO will win out. The EVO's brakes fade less over time.). Also, when you take away the launch from the EVO, it's not all that impressive. It probably makes around 230 or so HP to the wheels. The S2000 makes around 200-210 usually. The S2000, is, however 400lbs lighter. The powerband is also set for top end and I'd venture to say that the S2000 has better aerodynamics (with the top closed). If you're on a road course and you're rolling out of a turn in your power band, the EVO isn't going anywhere. Combine that with the fact that your corner entry speed and midcorner speed should be higher than the EVO. The EVO will usually exit a corner slightly faster than a stock S2000, but not by enough to regain an advantage.

But that's just my experience.

I went to Road America 7 or 8 days after buying my S2000. It was still on stealership tires and was still crushing the MR that was out there.

Even on paper, the S2000 looks better. Better suspension system, better 60-0 distance (IIRC), lighter weight, more chassis refinements and engineering, better weight distribution, etc etc etc.

Not to sound crude, but remember that the EVO starts out as a regular Lancer. The S2000 starts out as a sports car.

Watch an EVO at your next auto cross. They're impressive in their launch and that they have instant power on demand. Watch how they kinda plow like a water buffalo, though. They kinda just roll, plow and crush the pavement to the finish line. But when they slow for a turn, they can BLAST to the next turn even if they're in a "bogged" position. An EVO will accelerate faster from 3k RPM than an S2000 will from 5k RPM.

The S2000 is much more graceful...the problem is the absence of low end torque. You have to make the compromise of shifting into the next gear for that split second of going over 40mph....or banging off the rev limiter and going nowhere just so your car will come out of the next turn with respectable pull after you slow down. Or waste time shifting back and forth (downshifting takes about .5sec or 1sec each time). They also dont get off the line quite as well. The S2000's launch sweet spot is hard to find. Usually, you bog, spin, or blow the diff. There's your 3 seconds.

 

The later Evos are certainly heavy weights, but the older ones like the Evo VI RS2 are only around 200 lbs more than the S. On paper, MY for MY, the two usually have very similar handling characteristics so I am not convinced that the S's handling will stove off the onslaught of 30-40 more whp delivered to 4 wheels instead of two. Their power to weight ratios are always better than the S. But this particular model should be compared to the CR and not a stock S I guess.

On paper, I don't think the Evo's should be as good as they are, but in reality, they really are impressive. It is that torque and 4wd I guess.

Do you have any clips or sites that show results of S's running against Evos in a non AutoX environment? I seldom see Evo's in any kind of road racing, but maybe our coverage down here is just poor.

 

im using 12k on my car right now. its not too stiff for me though. im thinking about going with 16k but i think that would be overkill since i dont really track the car. 12k on the highway is not rough at all however my coilovers have adjustable valving.

 

How are your roads? On bumpy or potty roads, is the ride jarring?

 

16k springs on Tein SRC's and my car rides better then some coilovers on 12k springs. Valving plays a big part in how the car will ride. I also drive 20k+ miles a year.