Upgrading the exhaust
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Upgrading the exhaust
It's about that time to upgrade the stock exhaust.
My S currently has the BERK 63.5 HFC installed as the OEM cat broke before I wanted to replace the entire exhaust. I have done countless forum dives looking for the best HP gains (very limited of course) and sound combination. From what I gathered on the forums and the official exhaust thread, the best choices seemed to be:
- Tanabe Medalion Touring
- HKS Hi-power (unfortunately known to reduce power)
- Fujitsubo Legalis R
However, with the new URGE Scavenger Exhaust System now available, I'm torn. Is it really worth the 2k investment?
There are a few s2k members that installed it and commented about it, but it still seems fairly new and I was looking for more opinions.
Thoughts?
My S currently has the BERK 63.5 HFC installed as the OEM cat broke before I wanted to replace the entire exhaust. I have done countless forum dives looking for the best HP gains (very limited of course) and sound combination. From what I gathered on the forums and the official exhaust thread, the best choices seemed to be:
- Tanabe Medalion Touring
- HKS Hi-power (unfortunately known to reduce power)
- Fujitsubo Legalis R
However, with the new URGE Scavenger Exhaust System now available, I'm torn. Is it really worth the 2k investment?
There are a few s2k members that installed it and commented about it, but it still seems fairly new and I was looking for more opinions.
Thoughts?
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From: Tallahassee, FL
It looks like you're leaning more towards the quiet side of the exhaust spectrum but ill give my input anyways lol. I have a skunk2 dual with an invidia 70mm test pipe. With the stock cat it droned like crazy between 3-4k rpm's but after I installed the test pipe a lot of the drone is gone. Its pretty loud so I run the silencers all the time but I think it sounds better with the silencers in anyways. I'm 19 so I have a pretty high tolerance for loud but with the silencers it passes the girlfriend test and it sounds great; Its a nice deep tone without being ricey or annoying. If you purely want power and dont care about loud I would say go for a single exit or the skunk2, but since it looks like you prefer quieter I would go with the urge or the tanabe for a good sound and looks combo. Just my $.02, whatever you end up with you'll be happy!
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From: sOCal
I was in between the hks and the tanabe medallion touring last month. I ended up with the tanabe medalion and it's been great. I didn't want anything too loud so this was perfect. I liked the look of it over the hks. Fitment is great and doesn't stick out more than the stock. Just be prepared for a lot of white smoke for the first 50 miles.
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: San Diego
Just got a Gernzhuast (the original Urge mid pipe) installed on my car last night and it's awesome. No drone, car is quiet around town, and sounds mean AF when I get on it. Huge improvement over my T1R EM Sparrow 
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I thought that would be obsolete considering the new one just came out. (But maybe I am getting all of these confused.)
It also seems like you need to get it tuned upon installation. However, I have a 2004 AP2, so I would need to get an ECU as well I imagine.
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: San Diego
Originally Posted by Frida83' timestamp='1459790266' post='23927771
Just got a Gernzhuast (the original Urge mid pipe) installed on my car last night and it's awesome. No drone, car is quiet around town, and sounds mean AF when I get on it. Huge improvement over my T1R EM Sparrow
I thought that would be obsolete considering the new one just came out. (But maybe I am getting all of these confused.)
It also seems like you need to get it tuned upon installation. However, I have a 2004 AP2, so I would need to get an ECU as well I imagine.
As for the tune, you need one to take full advantage of the mid-pipe, but you would also need to to really take advantage of a test pipe or high flow cat.
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Chesterfield VA
The OEM exhaust is a little too subdued for me and, like many, I just wanted a bit more performance or pseudo performance. Standard "formula" is intake + exhaust and there is much informal data on the forum that supports this. Easiest is intake. The K&N fits in an hour or so without the car on a lift and claims to boost power a bit. The intake sound alone, though, is worth the price. Exhaust is more difficult.
I fitted the Tanabe Medalion Touring dual exhaust early last summer. Behind a Berk 63mm high flow cat. Sounds great, especially compared to the Invidia Q300 that was on the car about a month before the drone and noise became unbearable. Never heard the Q300 with the OEM cat, though, hence my strong recommendation to hear any exhaust on the car before buying. Internet sound clips are useless.
My car is a 2006 (DBW) with a Gernby tune that produces substantially more mid-range power than stock. A buddy fitted the exact same exhaust system (including the cat) to his 2002 car. Both cars have K&N FIPK intakes and produce essentially the same peak power to the rear wheels (221 vs 210). The tune was responsible for more power in the useful range and acceleration was startling. So startling I installed an over-rev alarm to prevent hitting the rev limiter so often in the lower gears. Exactly how much of this is hardware vs software?
Data here indicates the stock intake and exhaust will produce something less than 200whp.
The "proper" way to do this is to dyno test each and every mod. The Mighty Car Mods and Speed Academy guys may have the ability to do this but few of us mere mortals do.
The MCM guys no longer have their S2000 with the Q300 exhaust. The SA track car is still under development. It has the Tanabe Medalion dual exhaust to keep noise levels to street-legal.
-- Chuck
I fitted the Tanabe Medalion Touring dual exhaust early last summer. Behind a Berk 63mm high flow cat. Sounds great, especially compared to the Invidia Q300 that was on the car about a month before the drone and noise became unbearable. Never heard the Q300 with the OEM cat, though, hence my strong recommendation to hear any exhaust on the car before buying. Internet sound clips are useless.
My car is a 2006 (DBW) with a Gernby tune that produces substantially more mid-range power than stock. A buddy fitted the exact same exhaust system (including the cat) to his 2002 car. Both cars have K&N FIPK intakes and produce essentially the same peak power to the rear wheels (221 vs 210). The tune was responsible for more power in the useful range and acceleration was startling. So startling I installed an over-rev alarm to prevent hitting the rev limiter so often in the lower gears. Exactly how much of this is hardware vs software?
Data here indicates the stock intake and exhaust will produce something less than 200whp.
The "proper" way to do this is to dyno test each and every mod. The Mighty Car Mods and Speed Academy guys may have the ability to do this but few of us mere mortals do.
The MCM guys no longer have their S2000 with the Q300 exhaust. The SA track car is still under development. It has the Tanabe Medalion dual exhaust to keep noise levels to street-legal.-- Chuck
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The OEM exhaust is a little too subdued for me and, like many, I just wanted a bit more performance or pseudo performance. Standard "formula" is intake + exhaust and there is much informal data on the forum that supports this. Easiest is intake. The K&N fits in an hour or so without the car on a lift and claims to boost power a bit. The intake sound alone, though, is worth the price. Exhaust is more difficult.
I fitted the Tanabe Medalion Touring dual exhaust early last summer. Behind a Berk 63mm high flow cat. Sounds great, especially compared to the Invidia Q300 that was on the car about a month before the drone and noise became unbearable. Never heard the Q300 with the OEM cat, though, hence my strong recommendation to hear any exhaust on the car before buying. Internet sound clips are useless.
My car is a 2006 (DBW) with a Gernby tune that produces substantially more mid-range power than stock. A buddy fitted the exact same exhaust system (including the cat) to his 2002 car. Both cars have K&N FIPK intakes and produce essentially the same peak power to the rear wheels (221 vs 210). The tune was responsible for more power in the useful range and acceleration was startling. So startling I installed an over-rev alarm to prevent hitting the rev limiter so often in the lower gears. Exactly how much of this is hardware vs software?
Data here indicates the stock intake and exhaust will produce something less than 200whp.
The "proper" way to do this is to dyno test each and every mod. The Mighty Car Mods and Speed Academy guys may have the ability to do this but few of us mere mortals do. The MCM guys no longer have their S2000 with the Q300 exhaust. The SA track car is still under development. It has the Tanabe Medalion dual exhaust to keep noise levels to street-legal.
-- Chuck
I fitted the Tanabe Medalion Touring dual exhaust early last summer. Behind a Berk 63mm high flow cat. Sounds great, especially compared to the Invidia Q300 that was on the car about a month before the drone and noise became unbearable. Never heard the Q300 with the OEM cat, though, hence my strong recommendation to hear any exhaust on the car before buying. Internet sound clips are useless.
My car is a 2006 (DBW) with a Gernby tune that produces substantially more mid-range power than stock. A buddy fitted the exact same exhaust system (including the cat) to his 2002 car. Both cars have K&N FIPK intakes and produce essentially the same peak power to the rear wheels (221 vs 210). The tune was responsible for more power in the useful range and acceleration was startling. So startling I installed an over-rev alarm to prevent hitting the rev limiter so often in the lower gears. Exactly how much of this is hardware vs software?
Data here indicates the stock intake and exhaust will produce something less than 200whp.
The "proper" way to do this is to dyno test each and every mod. The Mighty Car Mods and Speed Academy guys may have the ability to do this but few of us mere mortals do.
The MCM guys no longer have their S2000 with the Q300 exhaust. The SA track car is still under development. It has the Tanabe Medalion dual exhaust to keep noise levels to street-legal.-- Chuck
However, as you've said, I will need a tune. So for you AP2 people, what ECU are you running?
Summary
Intake: K&N
Exhaust: BERK 63.5 HFC w/ Tanbe Medalion (~$800) OR the URGE Mid-pipe w/ T1r (Scavenger exhaust) (~$2,000)
ECU: ??
This is becoming an expensive upgrade quite quickly.
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Chesterfield VA
What year is your car? Sorry if I missed it, but it's vital.
The OEM ECU works fine for 2006+ AP2 DBW car, you just need to access the computer. Hondata FlashPro for example. For others you need to know if you want to preserve the ability to pass smog testing. The '06 and later ECUs can be Honda FlashPro tuned simply by connecting to the OBD2 port and a PC. (Lots of knowledge required -- which I don't have -- but that's all the hardware needed.)
'04 and '05 AP2 cars and all AP1s in North America need a piggyback ECU if you want to pass smog and only a couple of them will pass smog. Or a complete stand-alone ECU -- which is unlikely to pass smog. Someone will know which if any stand-alones will do this but many (most? all?) lack a OBD2 port which is how most emissions testing is done.
If emissions testing is not required there are some very nice "plug-n-play" standalone ECUs. Haltech for example has one for the AP1 and early AP2 cars. Since this ECU just replaces the factory ECU it appears the OBD2 port on the car remains functional and the car may pass smog. ??
There's a reason all this aftermarket stuff is marked "For Off-Road Use Only."
Engine tuning has the ability to completely bugger the engine without lots of knowledge. Which I don't have so I had a Gernby tune applied to mine.
-- Chuck
The OEM ECU works fine for 2006+ AP2 DBW car, you just need to access the computer. Hondata FlashPro for example. For others you need to know if you want to preserve the ability to pass smog testing. The '06 and later ECUs can be Honda FlashPro tuned simply by connecting to the OBD2 port and a PC. (Lots of knowledge required -- which I don't have -- but that's all the hardware needed.)
'04 and '05 AP2 cars and all AP1s in North America need a piggyback ECU if you want to pass smog and only a couple of them will pass smog. Or a complete stand-alone ECU -- which is unlikely to pass smog. Someone will know which if any stand-alones will do this but many (most? all?) lack a OBD2 port which is how most emissions testing is done.
If emissions testing is not required there are some very nice "plug-n-play" standalone ECUs. Haltech for example has one for the AP1 and early AP2 cars. Since this ECU just replaces the factory ECU it appears the OBD2 port on the car remains functional and the car may pass smog. ??
There's a reason all this aftermarket stuff is marked "For Off-Road Use Only."
Engine tuning has the ability to completely bugger the engine without lots of knowledge. Which I don't have so I had a Gernby tune applied to mine.
-- Chuck
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 13,826
Likes: 1,548
From: Chesterfield VA
If you're keeping track of the money spent 
you'll kill the fun!
I figure I gained roughly 25whp (maybe!) in my car with intake, exhaust, and tune.
All rounded to next $10:
Intake: $300
Cat: $230
Q300: $680. Minus $500 quick sale price. $180 net. (Remember what I wrote about hearing the system on the car!?)
Medalion Touring: $800
Hondata FlashPro: $610
Gernby tune: $90
Dyno test: $70 to know what all this produced.
TOTAL: $2285 (!)
$2285/25hp = $91/hp. Probably closer to $100 but $91 looks better.
Think that's cost effective? This is the first time I've run the totals and doubt I'll do it again.
-- Chuck
you'll kill the fun!I figure I gained roughly 25whp (maybe!) in my car with intake, exhaust, and tune.
All rounded to next $10:
Intake: $300
Cat: $230
Q300: $680. Minus $500 quick sale price. $180 net. (Remember what I wrote about hearing the system on the car!?)
Medalion Touring: $800
Hondata FlashPro: $610
Gernby tune: $90
Dyno test: $70 to know what all this produced.
TOTAL: $2285 (!)
$2285/25hp = $91/hp. Probably closer to $100 but $91 looks better.
Think that's cost effective?
This is the first time I've run the totals and doubt I'll do it again.-- Chuck