Which autocross tire?
01-29-2001, 05:22 PM
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Been out of the loop for a while - last I remember ('95-'96) the 10/10ths (most serious) racers mostly ran BFG-R1s, the 9/10ths racers ran Yokohamas (which lasted longer) and some ran Toyo Proxes. These days it seems Hoosiers are for those at 10/10ths, Kumhos for those at 9/10ths.
I'm certainly no 10/10ths driver, and my suspension is still stock, though I'll be getting a front swaybar soon. I'll probably wait until there's a mass-produced Koni option before I get shocks.
So my question is this: are Kumhos today's best choice for those at less than 10/10ths, like me? Anybody even try running the latest BFG's or Yoko's on an auto-x stook? Participating in the JDM wheel group buy, and I want to know what to dress them with when they arrive...
Thanks!
Jason
I'm certainly no 10/10ths driver, and my suspension is still stock, though I'll be getting a front swaybar soon. I'll probably wait until there's a mass-produced Koni option before I get shocks.
So my question is this: are Kumhos today's best choice for those at less than 10/10ths, like me? Anybody even try running the latest BFG's or Yoko's on an auto-x stook? Participating in the JDM wheel group buy, and I want to know what to dress them with when they arrive...
Thanks!
Jason
01-30-2001, 07:40 AM
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In my opinion, this is how it shakes down...
A National driver can be fast on either tire. As a general rule, the Hoosiers are slightly faster than the Kumhos, depending on the car. It seems that our car is quite good on Kumhos (evidenced by Gary Thomason's Nationals win) but I feel Hoosiers are the no-compromise solution.
Basically, the Hoosiers have more cornering grip. The Hoosiers will not work well without a front swaybar. The Kumhos tend to have more straight line grip (accel and braking) and therefore work better with mild mods.
Since our car is prepped to the limit, I know we can run Hoosiers. I ran Hoosiers all last year on my Corrado, and I really liked them. The problem is they don't last. The Kumho easily has triple the life of the Hoosier.
One last anecdote... and remember that different cars respond differently. A local Pro/National level F-Stock driver was on Kumhos for the past 4 years. He was struggling on the latest generation Kumho, so he tried the Hoosiers. On an asphalt surface, he was 1-1.5 seconds faster on the Hoosiers over a 45 second course! I think that difference would also not be as big on concrete, but it's pretty solid evidence.
The verdict? There are really only 2 tires if you want to go fast. One is no-compromise, light and soft. The other is heavy, harder but somehow seems to go just as fast... go figure!
If you're just starting out, or just getting back into things, I'd use the Kumhos.
HTH!
A National driver can be fast on either tire. As a general rule, the Hoosiers are slightly faster than the Kumhos, depending on the car. It seems that our car is quite good on Kumhos (evidenced by Gary Thomason's Nationals win) but I feel Hoosiers are the no-compromise solution.
Basically, the Hoosiers have more cornering grip. The Hoosiers will not work well without a front swaybar. The Kumhos tend to have more straight line grip (accel and braking) and therefore work better with mild mods.
Since our car is prepped to the limit, I know we can run Hoosiers. I ran Hoosiers all last year on my Corrado, and I really liked them. The problem is they don't last. The Kumho easily has triple the life of the Hoosier.
One last anecdote... and remember that different cars respond differently. A local Pro/National level F-Stock driver was on Kumhos for the past 4 years. He was struggling on the latest generation Kumho, so he tried the Hoosiers. On an asphalt surface, he was 1-1.5 seconds faster on the Hoosiers over a 45 second course! I think that difference would also not be as big on concrete, but it's pretty solid evidence.
The verdict? There are really only 2 tires if you want to go fast. One is no-compromise, light and soft. The other is heavy, harder but somehow seems to go just as fast... go figure!
If you're just starting out, or just getting back into things, I'd use the Kumhos.
HTH!
01-31-2001, 10:06 AM
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Has anyone used the Yokohama A032R or BFG T/A R1 for autocross? They both come in 205 & 245 sizes, which should be much closer in size to stock. From what I have experienced racing the S2000, the stock tire widths are ideal. I have a Mugen front sway bar and with the stock tires, the car is very neutral, with only power oversteer.
02-03-2001, 12:16 AM
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I have the Hoosiers and they really grip well in the corners. They are ugly in a straight line. It almost seems like the car is broken going straight, very twitchy and incredibly sensitive to inputs, wheel and throttle. Turn the wheel a bit and they latch on really hard. They are tricky and demand a very smooth driver. I've only run mine once and so they are still a bit new.
My experience suggests you are right about 10/10ths thing. On the other hand my experience with them suggests they are actually a good training tool. They demand you be smooth and precise. If you upset the suspension the tires will not bail you out. There is no play there. If you get on it too hard or make some other mistake, you will be punished severely. This forces me to be a better driver. I know when I've made a mistake because I'm pointing the wrong way. The margin of error permitted is nill so you get clear feedback. A little too much this and POW! You know immediately what you did wrong, its 1:1, cause and effect. When you do it right you are rewarded equally.
I learned more about how to drive my car fast and in control in the one session on my Hoosiers than the 5 previous sessions on my street tires. The streets were too forgiving IMO. I could screw up all day long and still keep the car going the right way. It might get a bit loose or what not but not as dramatically. The problems would compound and I wouldn't see the effect for a corner or two. In the 15 runs on streets I never spun once. In 4 runs on the Hoosiers, I spun 7 times. It was pathetic and really embarrassing. But I was able to learn from those and improve each run where as I was never totally sure what I did wrong on the streets.
My experience suggests you are right about 10/10ths thing. On the other hand my experience with them suggests they are actually a good training tool. They demand you be smooth and precise. If you upset the suspension the tires will not bail you out. There is no play there. If you get on it too hard or make some other mistake, you will be punished severely. This forces me to be a better driver. I know when I've made a mistake because I'm pointing the wrong way. The margin of error permitted is nill so you get clear feedback. A little too much this and POW! You know immediately what you did wrong, its 1:1, cause and effect. When you do it right you are rewarded equally.
I learned more about how to drive my car fast and in control in the one session on my Hoosiers than the 5 previous sessions on my street tires. The streets were too forgiving IMO. I could screw up all day long and still keep the car going the right way. It might get a bit loose or what not but not as dramatically. The problems would compound and I wouldn't see the effect for a corner or two. In the 15 runs on streets I never spun once. In 4 runs on the Hoosiers, I spun 7 times. It was pathetic and really embarrassing. But I was able to learn from those and improve each run where as I was never totally sure what I did wrong on the streets.
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