Best tire for B Street AP1
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If someone can find a 17"x7.5 et65 (well, you can go 59 to 71 based on the allowance) wheel, I would gladly buy two. So far I've turned up exactly zero matches when trying to find one. At this point it looks like you'd need to go 100% custom to make it happen, and that just isn't worth it to me. Too bad, I think having that wheel might allow the AP1 cars to be competitive.
Edit: More concerning for people who race in smaller regions and look at PAX more than class competitiveness: 2014 PAX for BS is .831 versus .838 for STR. What does that mean? Well, lets say an STR S2000 puts down a 45s run. In a BS S2000, you would need to run 45.38s to be equal. Off the cuff, I'd say the wheel and tire difference alone will put the STR car beyond reach in that situation, let alone suspension and other mods.
Edit: More concerning for people who race in smaller regions and look at PAX more than class competitiveness: 2014 PAX for BS is .831 versus .838 for STR. What does that mean? Well, lets say an STR S2000 puts down a 45s run. In a BS S2000, you would need to run 45.38s to be equal. Off the cuff, I'd say the wheel and tire difference alone will put the STR car beyond reach in that situation, let alone suspension and other mods.
Joined: Oct 2011
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The general consensus is that Rick Ruth went conservative on the PAX index for the Street categories. If that's a problem for your local region(s), you can either petition to use an alternate index, or just work on driving better since there's not much else you can do about it. In theory, next year's PAX should be "better" with a year's worth of events to work from.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Chicago
New Idea....does this make sense?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
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Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Here were my thoughts on the new B-Street rules regarding wheel and tire choices for 2014 in this thread (better suited here): https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/107...-street-class/
I'm been thinking about this since the rules were proposed last year. Here's what I've been mulling over:
How can I best take advantage of the new Street rules, enhance the advantages of my AP1 and bridge the performance gap over the AP2?
-Wider tires (limited to mostly 225 width for the 16" 200TW options at the moment)
-Gearing (AP1 are down on power and torque over the AP2 in B-Street however they have a significantly higher top speed in 2nd gear, sacrifice speed for acceleration with shorter tires and keep the F20c in Vtec on course as much as possible)
- Wheel Weight (OEM AP1 wheels aren't exactly light weight, is there lighter alternative? JDM BBS 16's and for 17" options ???)
Here's what's been suggested for 17" wheels so far:
17" Wheels:
Front wheel option:
2004-2009 OEM Mazda3 17-inch
Width - 6.5 inches
Offset - 52.5mm
Wheel alone - ~22lbs
As per Mazda Forum FAQ
Rear Wheel option:
Various 17 inch Honda Accord Wheels:
Width - 7.5 inches
Offset - 55mm*
Weight - ?
Some various Accord wheel Specs
These wheels would require a 4-5mm spacer to be considered legal. This combo is relatively heavy and ugly, if that matters to anyone.
Tires:
In my opinion the only reason to consider 17" wheels for B-Street is finding a wider tire than 225 for the rears. The fronts are already maxed with 205-225 on a 6.5" wheel. On 225/45/17 square setups, There's already a few 225/50 or 225/45 in 16" to choose from. Going through the trouble of finding oddball 17" and mounting 225/45/17 square tires is hardly worth the effort in my opinion. The shorter sidewall might be slightly beneficial but the added wheel weight and inertia going from a 16" to 17" combo would negate most of the advantages.
As for a 235 wide 17's there's a 40 and 45 sidewall option. the 40 is 1.8% shorter than OEM and the 45 sidewall is 1.8% faster. 235/40 would be better due to gearing alone. There's a few tires options in that size but the clear front runner would be the Dunlop ZII due to the stiffer sidewall construction than it's competitors, they are the front runner for overtiring in the new street class. Another potential would be the "magic compound" 235/40/17 Toyo R1R for 2014 before it's banned in 2015. Those tires respond really well to the Lincoln concrete when shaved but those tires seem to favor a wider wheel like a 9" in STR. It would be interesting to see if it can perform well on a 7.5" wheel.
If a 245/40/17 worth considering on a 17x7.5 wheel, the only one worth trying in my opinion would be the Dunlop ZII. Matched with a 215/45/17 or 225/50/16 in front.
If someone is looking for shorter tires for better gearing, the 17" option is lacking. The 16" Dunlop zII 224/45 square is 3.8% shorter. That being said I've narrowed down my personal choice to the 225/45/16 ZII on OEM wheels for better gearing, simplicity and overall good performance. I'm not a fan of the ZII feel and peakiness but it's the best compromise for me at the moment.
How can I best take advantage of the new Street rules, enhance the advantages of my AP1 and bridge the performance gap over the AP2?
-Wider tires (limited to mostly 225 width for the 16" 200TW options at the moment)
-Gearing (AP1 are down on power and torque over the AP2 in B-Street however they have a significantly higher top speed in 2nd gear, sacrifice speed for acceleration with shorter tires and keep the F20c in Vtec on course as much as possible)
- Wheel Weight (OEM AP1 wheels aren't exactly light weight, is there lighter alternative? JDM BBS 16's and for 17" options ???)
Here's what's been suggested for 17" wheels so far:
17" Wheels:
Front wheel option:
2004-2009 OEM Mazda3 17-inch
Width - 6.5 inches
Offset - 52.5mm
Wheel alone - ~22lbs
As per Mazda Forum FAQ
Rear Wheel option:
Various 17 inch Honda Accord Wheels:
Width - 7.5 inches
Offset - 55mm*
Weight - ?
Some various Accord wheel Specs
These wheels would require a 4-5mm spacer to be considered legal. This combo is relatively heavy and ugly, if that matters to anyone.
Tires:
In my opinion the only reason to consider 17" wheels for B-Street is finding a wider tire than 225 for the rears. The fronts are already maxed with 205-225 on a 6.5" wheel. On 225/45/17 square setups, There's already a few 225/50 or 225/45 in 16" to choose from. Going through the trouble of finding oddball 17" and mounting 225/45/17 square tires is hardly worth the effort in my opinion. The shorter sidewall might be slightly beneficial but the added wheel weight and inertia going from a 16" to 17" combo would negate most of the advantages.
As for a 235 wide 17's there's a 40 and 45 sidewall option. the 40 is 1.8% shorter than OEM and the 45 sidewall is 1.8% faster. 235/40 would be better due to gearing alone. There's a few tires options in that size but the clear front runner would be the Dunlop ZII due to the stiffer sidewall construction than it's competitors, they are the front runner for overtiring in the new street class. Another potential would be the "magic compound" 235/40/17 Toyo R1R for 2014 before it's banned in 2015. Those tires respond really well to the Lincoln concrete when shaved but those tires seem to favor a wider wheel like a 9" in STR. It would be interesting to see if it can perform well on a 7.5" wheel.
If a 245/40/17 worth considering on a 17x7.5 wheel, the only one worth trying in my opinion would be the Dunlop ZII. Matched with a 215/45/17 or 225/50/16 in front.
If someone is looking for shorter tires for better gearing, the 17" option is lacking. The 16" Dunlop zII 224/45 square is 3.8% shorter. That being said I've narrowed down my personal choice to the 225/45/16 ZII on OEM wheels for better gearing, simplicity and overall good performance. I'm not a fan of the ZII feel and peakiness but it's the best compromise for me at the moment.
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I am favoring this setup personally. I don't feel like making the investment in custom 17's even though that may be a little better option. Most likely the car will progress to an STR setup anyhow. If I decide to stick this might be a future option. A rule change to allow Ap1's to use Ap2 sizes would be awesome.
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Originally Posted by imarcr2' timestamp='1393963121' post='23045872
New Idea....does this make sense?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,578
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From: Kentucky
Originally Posted by solos2k' timestamp='1393981991' post='23046415
[quote name='imarcr2' timestamp='1393963121' post='23045872']
New Idea....does this make sense?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
New Idea....does this make sense?
225/45/16 square on stock staggered wheels. They are 1 inch shorter(better gearing for AP1). Not sure how that size with less sidewall will like the narrow fronts....thoughts?
[/quote]
I wrote a letter to stating that the AP1 is in abundance, relatively cheap, and a fun car to autocross. I suggested that they find a place for it to have a chance to win, and there would be a ton of these making it out to the events. I suggested some rule change that would allow the a wheel change like using the AP2's wheel, or just place the AP1 to CS. The letter got read and was denied. That's when I sold all my cars and autocross stuff except to daily drive my STR AP1. I really wanted to support the new Street class and run an AP1, but I'm just going to wait and see what comes from all this.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 188
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From: Chicago
I have found that if you ever have a car that is "the car to have" for a given class, they will bury it the following year.
If you have a car that is getting old, the SCCA doesn't show a lot of interest to give it a competitive class.....look what they did to the 94-97 Miatas this year
If you have a car that is getting old, the SCCA doesn't show a lot of interest to give it a competitive class.....look what they did to the 94-97 Miatas this year
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
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Here were my thoughts on the new B-Street rules regarding wheel and tire choices for 2014 in this thread (better suited here): https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/107...-street-class/
I'm been thinking about this since the rules were proposed last year. Here's what I've been mulling over:
Rear Wheel option:
Various 17 inch Honda Accord Wheels:
Width - 7.5 inches
Offset - 55mm*
Weight - ?
Some various Accord wheel Specs
These wheels would require a 4-5mm spacer to be considered legal. This combo is relatively heavy and ugly, if that matters to anyone.
Rear Wheel option:
Various 17 inch Honda Accord Wheels:
Width - 7.5 inches
Offset - 55mm*
Weight - ?
Some various Accord wheel Specs
These wheels would require a 4-5mm spacer to be considered legal. This combo is relatively heavy and ugly, if that matters to anyone.
