BFGoodrich g-Force Rival
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 6
From: Near Philadelphia
Originally Posted by Bullwings' timestamp='1367814689' post='22521677
I'm curious what rhouck has to report from Chuckwalla this weekend. Saturday was in the 90s. I'd like to hear how the hold up in a days worth of track lapping in 90F weather.
I'd also like to hear more on the RE-11a.
jj1, rhouck, SebringAP1? you guys there? what's the overall consensus and feed back on the tires holding up to Saturday's Chuckwalla heat.
I'd also like to hear more on the RE-11a.
jj1, rhouck, SebringAP1? you guys there? what's the overall consensus and feed back on the tires holding up to Saturday's Chuckwalla heat.
1. They don't hold up any better in heat than RS3. First lap good, second lap starting to slip and slide, third lap greased and never recover for rest of session.
2. Quieter than RS3. Less audible feedback. Did not like compared to RS3 howl, but maybe less of issue for some.
3. Squirmy treadblock. More feedback than RS3, but I'm still not convinced it's better feedback. I did feel that brake feel on trail braking was better than RS3.
4. Very good wear characteristics. Though CVR is relatively easy on tires, they wore evenly and smoothly. Unknown how they will fall off after heat cycles.
5. I didn't like the breakaway characteristics of the tire. It can hold a deceiving amount of slip angle, but the way it approaches slip is no bueno imo. I am willing to potentially chalk part of that up to my having significant more experience on the RS3.
I also had an interesting conversation with another guy who was testing them for the first time (not s2k, but lots of experience) and actually did a proper back-to-back comparison of Rivals vs RS3 (on spare set of identical wheels). He was a full second slower on Rival vs day 4 RS3s...
Cliff Notes: track day drivers can breathe a sigh of relief. At $250+ more per set than the RS3, it would have been an expensive "needed" upgrade if it was the new must-have tire. That does not appear to be the case. I may continue to give them a go for another track day or two to see if I can acclimate to it more (though by comparison, when I tried NT01 I was instantly comfortable -- for those reading 949's review, keep in mind it is because they run NT01 a lot, NOT because this tire should be compared as similar to it (imo)). The tire is not complete crap or anything, it's just not worth the hype (for tracking -- autox guys can form their own opinions).
I'll update if my opinions change after trying them more. If someone wants to buy my set I used this weekend at CVR to try for themselves, or a new set for cheaper than tire rack, let me know.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 480
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by xraymd' timestamp='1367843902' post='22522025
[quote name='RyanDavies' timestamp='1367805818' post='22521423']
I'd say the more useful data point will be when STR drivers get the 245 Rivals at their doorstep and start testing.
I'd say the more useful data point will be when STR drivers get the 245 Rivals at their doorstep and start testing.
You think the 255 is too much tire?
[/quote]
I've been going back and forth with the Dunlop Z2s and the Bstone RE-11A on 255s. The reason i ventured with the 235 Toyo was to exploit the compound compared to the rest. The Toyo was much better (compound wise) compared to both the Z1* and RS3 for autocross. I was able to get 3 consistent runs in without heat issues. In fact 90% of my track time with that tire was in +95º autox days. If we were still on the old gen tires I would still be on the Toyos. However, the Rival, Z2 and RE-11A feel substantially better than the "bicycle tire" Toyos
. With the RE-11A I think the 245 would be a better size. They run WIDE, almost too wide. Compared to the Z2 I felt the RE-11A could benefit from a stretch to increase steering response. They also are slow to take a set so the stretch helps there as well. The Z2 is stiff enough to not warranty a stretch. Dunlop even made their 255 1/4" overall narrower than the old Z1* which is a good thing for transitional response as it is the strength of the tire compared to the Rival.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by rhouck' timestamp='1367853963' post='22522346
[quote name='Bullwings' timestamp='1367814689' post='22521677']
I'm curious what rhouck has to report from Chuckwalla this weekend. Saturday was in the 90s. I'd like to hear how the hold up in a days worth of track lapping in 90F weather.
I'd also like to hear more on the RE-11a.
jj1, rhouck, SebringAP1? you guys there? what's the overall consensus and feed back on the tires holding up to Saturday's Chuckwalla heat.
I'm curious what rhouck has to report from Chuckwalla this weekend. Saturday was in the 90s. I'd like to hear how the hold up in a days worth of track lapping in 90F weather.
I'd also like to hear more on the RE-11a.
jj1, rhouck, SebringAP1? you guys there? what's the overall consensus and feed back on the tires holding up to Saturday's Chuckwalla heat.
1. They don't hold up any better in heat than RS3. First lap good, second lap starting to slip and slide, third lap greased and never recover for rest of session.
2. Quieter than RS3. Less audible feedback. Did not like compared to RS3 howl, but maybe less of issue for some.
3. Squirmy treadblock. More feedback than RS3, but I'm still not convinced it's better feedback. I did feel that brake feel on trail braking was better than RS3.
4. Very good wear characteristics. Though CVR is relatively easy on tires, they wore evenly and smoothly. Unknown how they will fall off after heat cycles.
5. I didn't like the breakaway characteristics of the tire. It can hold a deceiving amount of slip angle, but the way it approaches slip is no bueno imo. I am willing to potentially chalk part of that up to my having significant more experience on the RS3.
I also had an interesting conversation with another guy who was testing them for the first time (not s2k, but lots of experience) and actually did a proper back-to-back comparison of Rivals vs RS3 (on spare set of identical wheels). He was a full second slower on Rival vs day 4 RS3s...
Cliff Notes: track day drivers can breathe a sigh of relief. At $250+ more per set than the RS3, it would have been an expensive "needed" upgrade if it was the new must-have tire. That does not appear to be the case. I may continue to give them a go for another track day or two to see if I can acclimate to it more (though by comparison, when I tried NT01 I was instantly comfortable -- for those reading 949's review, keep in mind it is because they run NT01 a lot, NOT because this tire should be compared as similar to it (imo)). The tire is not complete crap or anything, it's just not worth the hype (for tracking -- autox guys can form their own opinions).
I'll update if my opinions change after trying them more. If someone wants to buy my set I used this weekend at CVR to try for themselves, or a new set for cheaper than tire rack, let me know.
[/quote]
I find RS3 to show similar behavior, where 2nd lap can still be very fast but slips a bit more and is dependent on heat of day and how hard track is on tires. Both days were very warm and track is near nonstop sweeping corners.
The Rivals could potentially be a bit more heat resistant than RS3 (as I haven't done a same day, same condition test) but it's still falling off peak grip. I know 949racing posted that they only found them to fall ~0.6 seconds on a Miata at Buttonwillow, but whether it is 0.6 seconds or 1.6 seconds is irrelevant for a time attack tire -- only relevant how long it takes to fall off (obviously a different story for those looking to run them on Chump cars, etc). To be clear, I don't find either tire to be undrivable after 4-5 hot laps, it's just slower and looser. 949racing compared the tire to a "5 heat cycle NT01". I switched from 7-8 heat cycle NT01s to brand new Rivals and do not think it is a good comparison.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 480
Likes: 3
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: Honda HQ
Originally Posted by mLeach' timestamp='1367866461' post='22522945
You also bought an additional set of z2s that were shaved and heat cycled... please tell us more about that!
... did I? These are my Lincoln Spring Nationals and National set tires and I don't have an event before LSN to break-em in. =(
My money is on the Rivals.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 480
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by oinojo' timestamp='1367867594' post='22523007
[quote name='mLeach' timestamp='1367866461' post='22522945']
You also bought an additional set of z2s that were shaved and heat cycled... please tell us more about that!
You also bought an additional set of z2s that were shaved and heat cycled... please tell us more about that!
... did I? These are my Lincoln Spring Nationals and National set tires and I don't have an event before LSN to break-em in. =(
My money is on the Rivals.
[/quote]
SHHHHHH
I think you'd like the Rivals. They feel pretty much like Hankooks but are way more forgiving in and out of slip angle and are good right off the bat.