some of you may have already seen this, but the FRS/BRZ has been classed in CS immediately, and there is a proposal to move the MSR-MX5 and solstice ZOK up to BS from CS. so, what do the current BS drivers think of this? personally, i am in favor of the proposal. BS has been losing drivers over the last couple of years (partly because of the draw of STR, partly because of the perception that you HAVE to have a CR to win). this move will bring some new cars into the mix that may have a fighting chance.

of course, this coming from a guy who runs an oddball car in BS anyway

thoughts?

 

I think it's the right thing to do -- not so much for B Stock (where I think it's a wash), but for C Stock, which currently basically requires you to build a car that was for all intents and purposes never available to the general public in order to be competitive.

 

Yeah, it's more to remove those cars from C-stock. I don't know that anyone is particularly afraid of those cars in B-stock.

 

If moving MSR-MX5 and solstice ZOK up to BS from CS passes, I wonder if this lays the ground work for the CR to go to AS (vs. a bump to a SP class). This would really make AS larger class, and it could bring out the non-CR S2000's back out to fight against the new cars in the class. IIRC, the times from those driving the CR's were fast enough to win AS... heck even SS in some event. =)

 

I'm still new to the S2k scene and the autocross scene, so I'm trying to get a grasp on this. I know the FRS/BRZ are being classed in CS, already watched the tail happy FRS on Sunday in CS. lol

Woulndn't bumping the CR to AS be a little excessive? I didn't think that having the CR was that much of an aid, seems like more hype than anything.

 

There's near universal (or just universal?) consensus that the CR's faster than the regular S2000s, although there's debate over *how* much faster. That point's arguably moot, though, as A Stock hasn't proven to be any faster than B Stock yet, so it's not clear that moving the CR would hurt its chances.

I agree that moving the CR to A Stock would be consistent with moving the Z0K and MS-R to B Stock, but recall that the SAC rejected my suggestion to do exactly that half a year ago.

 

I feel the C5 vette, S2000, and MX5 are completely different animals and should not be classed together. Each of these cars have large differences in strengths and weaknesses despite putting down similar times (at a few events when running in the same conditions, heats, etc). If we could expect courses that are PAX friendly and properly balanced, this wouldn't be much of an issue and you could group many different cars together in same classes. With many of the NT/Pro courses I drove over the last year, the race was over before the event started depending on which car you drove. Since there are flaws and will always be flaws, I feel the classes are fine the way they are. The addition of the FRS and BRZ could be similar to the addition of the S2000 to B-Stock back in the day. That move upset the class and the SCCA moved them to A-Stock. If the FRS and BRZ upset C-Stock, move them up to B-Stock. A-Stock is starting to get decent numbers at events. Screwing with that class any more would be a huge mistake. Every class has a specific car most believe you must have in order to win. I don't see how this problem can be avoided easily. Continuously screwing with the rules, re-classing cars, and increasing fees, etc are some of the main reasons participation is down. The main reasons I hear from local members for not attending have to do with expenses and the belief that they have no chance of winning. The SCCA needs to focus on these people and how to get them to events by using incentives and other perks before anything else. Looking at the situation with the Toledo Pro Solo proved to me that the SCCA is out of touch with it's membership. It's no surprise they had to hire consultants to figure out how to increase participation.

-Marc

 

the SCCA/SEB has made no mention of moving the CR to AS. marc, you are getting worked up over a hypothetical situation

as a couple of people have said, i think the MSR/ZOK will be chasing the CR, but i think in the hands of a good driver... they can make it VERY interesting. and personally, interesting is good.

 

Actually, that was in response to Stephen's statement to move the CR to AS and to use the "grouping of cars" argument in general. Those proposals has surfaced on different forums and not from just Stephen. Based on recent history, when certain classes start showing similar times, it seems many want to group them together. Outside of Fenter, Buetzer, and Heitkotter, no other driver in the ZOk or MSR has been able to keep up with B-Stock (same conditions, proper course). Because of this, I think leaving C-Stock alone is best.

As for being worked up, not really. The SCCA makes decisions differently than what the membership wants. That is why STR is so unique and popular, it was a class made due to an overwhelming demand from the membership. The point is to be vocal and get in letters of support or disagreement.

-Marc

 

I still agree with this 100%. Better for both classes.

I see the point you're making, but I don't see it being consistent with the existing classes. BS already has a bunch of cars that are very different from the S2000, NSX, Boxster and Corvette (which are all very different already). We have AWD sedans like Audi RS4 & RS6, super sedans like AMG Benzes and M5, luxury GT coupes like the XKR and Maserati GranSport, etc. AS is a mix of sports cars and sedans that are theoretically faster than BS and slower than SS goes there. CS has a bunch of older versions of AS and BS cars tossed in because they can't keep up with their successors. Also, there's SS, the classic Scalpel vs. Hammer class that often produces great battles despite the platform disparity. Is there something I'm missing that makes these proposed moves inconsistent with previous ones?