Cornering Technique Question
Just so we're all clear: heel-and-toeing is not the same as double-declutching downshifts. Heel-and-toe shifting is an essential technique for track driving. It involves matching engine revs for a downshift at the same time as braking. However, novices should get comfortable with the more essential components of track driving before they start heel-and-toeing -- in my opinion.
Double-declutching downshifts is something some drivers feel very strongly about. I personally don't get it. With S2000's, we're talking about a very modern and well-designed transmission. I don't see any good reason to double-clutch in it at all. You certainly won't see most professional racers double-clutching synchromesh transmissions. Then again, most professionals don't have to reach into their own pockets for tranny rebuilds. But it's like I say, some guys are proud of their ability to do it, and adamant about how it babies their transmissions. Aside from creating some extra work for their feet while driving, I don't see any harm in it.
Double-declutching downshifts is something some drivers feel very strongly about. I personally don't get it. With S2000's, we're talking about a very modern and well-designed transmission. I don't see any good reason to double-clutch in it at all. You certainly won't see most professional racers double-clutching synchromesh transmissions. Then again, most professionals don't have to reach into their own pockets for tranny rebuilds. But it's like I say, some guys are proud of their ability to do it, and adamant about how it babies their transmissions. Aside from creating some extra work for their feet while driving, I don't see any harm in it.
Originally Posted by JackOlsen,Apr 11 2005, 09:08 PM
Then again, most professionals don't have to reach into their own pockets for tranny rebuilds. But it's like I say, some guys are proud of their ability to do it, and adamant about how it babies their transmissions. Aside from creating some extra work for their feet while driving, I don't see any harm in it.
Could someone try to explain left foot braking to me? I know how to do basically everything else (heel-toe, double-clutching [although I choose not to double-clutch with the S2000], etc).
I'd basically like to understand the basic technique and possible scenarios in which you'd use it
I'd basically like to understand the basic technique and possible scenarios in which you'd use it
As you approach a turn, position your left foot over the left side of the brake (if you're going down a straight with a lot of speed and approaching a tight turn, you might want to give a quick dab at the brake now to make sure your brakes are still working before it's too late). When you transition from accelerating to braking, you will have less transition time because your left foot is already hovering there. As soon as possible, switch your right foot onto the right side of the brake pedal and try not to disrupt the pressure on the pedal as you do so. Move your left foot over to the clutch for your downshifts. As you approach the apex and are about to get on the gas again, move your left foot back to the brake pedal, move your right foot back to the gas, and then you can transition quickly back to the gas. Keep your left foot over the brake in case you need to give a quick touch at the brakes to tighten up your line on corner exit.
I'm still getting used to it, but getting better.
I'm still getting used to it, but getting better.
Wow, that's complicated Rev.
It's a controversial technique, but it's mostly used when a downshift is not required (so none of the fancy footwork that Rev described) but braking is required, such as entering a relatively fast corner, in mid of a string of corners (esses), or entering a sweeper etc.. By being able to control the brake and the throttle simultaneously, you can make the transitions from throttle to brake and brake to throttle seamless, and in fact overlapping. One benefit is that you can keep the revs up higher while still braking (I hear this is most useful with a turbo but helps a lot with VTEC too). The whole purpose is to keep the car as stable as possible to maximize traction. You can feel the nose of the car get down on braking but not jump back up when you transition to throttle. You still trail-brake also, and I do use it also with downshifts but I suggest not trying this until you are very comfortable doing the former as it can get confusing.
I should have added that if it's desirable in a corner requiring downshifts, you typically only need to do it after the shift (+/- heel-toe), so still similar to when there is no downshift once the downshift is made. In the end the goal is to be faster, so if it's not making you faster (it can slow you down until you get good at it, and even then if overused can slow you down), then don't do it. Barichello tried it and went back to right-foot braking.
It's a controversial technique, but it's mostly used when a downshift is not required (so none of the fancy footwork that Rev described) but braking is required, such as entering a relatively fast corner, in mid of a string of corners (esses), or entering a sweeper etc.. By being able to control the brake and the throttle simultaneously, you can make the transitions from throttle to brake and brake to throttle seamless, and in fact overlapping. One benefit is that you can keep the revs up higher while still braking (I hear this is most useful with a turbo but helps a lot with VTEC too). The whole purpose is to keep the car as stable as possible to maximize traction. You can feel the nose of the car get down on braking but not jump back up when you transition to throttle. You still trail-brake also, and I do use it also with downshifts but I suggest not trying this until you are very comfortable doing the former as it can get confusing.

I should have added that if it's desirable in a corner requiring downshifts, you typically only need to do it after the shift (+/- heel-toe), so still similar to when there is no downshift once the downshift is made. In the end the goal is to be faster, so if it's not making you faster (it can slow you down until you get good at it, and even then if overused can slow you down), then don't do it. Barichello tried it and went back to right-foot braking.
from a practical perspective it appears that the biggest benefit to be gained by left foot braking is in the fast corners where you need just a dab of brake. some people also like to "warm up" the brakes after a long straight. these are the only two applications of left foot braking that I see useful in a car with conventional gearbox.
while theoretically, reverends technique would shorten the transition time from gas to brake therefore lowering hte laptime. we're really talking a very fractional advantage that is well within the variance of the laptimes from lap to lap, even if executed perfectly. also it seems that there is a lot more potential for a screw up and all the consequences that it entails (lost time or worse).
IMHO, that technique is worth mastering only if you've nailed everything else and can run consistant laps getting the most out of the car. After all if there is a guy who's faster without all that fancy footwork, it may be a better idea to improve in other areas first.
BTW, F1 is a little different since they only have 2 pedals to work with. There I can see all the advantages of left foot braking (also applies to auto cars and SMGs). I do agree that if it's making someone slower they should either go back to the other way or get better in their execution.
while theoretically, reverends technique would shorten the transition time from gas to brake therefore lowering hte laptime. we're really talking a very fractional advantage that is well within the variance of the laptimes from lap to lap, even if executed perfectly. also it seems that there is a lot more potential for a screw up and all the consequences that it entails (lost time or worse).
IMHO, that technique is worth mastering only if you've nailed everything else and can run consistant laps getting the most out of the car. After all if there is a guy who's faster without all that fancy footwork, it may be a better idea to improve in other areas first.
BTW, F1 is a little different since they only have 2 pedals to work with. There I can see all the advantages of left foot braking (also applies to auto cars and SMGs). I do agree that if it's making someone slower they should either go back to the other way or get better in their execution.
only comment is that the point is not about how fast you can transition from gas-to-brake-to-gas, but how smoothly to maximize traction (or minimize reducing traction).... that's where you make up the time by going faster through the corner. Doesn't matter what kind of gearbox etc.
Originally Posted by rlaifatt,Apr 12 2005, 05:09 PM
One benefit is that you can keep the revs up higher while still braking (I hear this is most useful with a turbo but helps a lot with VTEC too).
Originally Posted by jguerdat,Apr 12 2005, 03:04 PM
Sorry but unless you're slipping the clutch or the tires, there's no way you'll be keeping the revs up. Turbos would likely get a boost (pun intended) since more exhaust gas would be passing through the impeller, keeping the turbo spinning faster and producing more boost or reducing the time required to reach full boost.




