So I want to pull the trigger on some shocks. I really like the gc/Koni setup. I think they are good value and I can run a higher spring than say a pss. My concern is they will have too little bump damping. My car is a 75/25 street track car. I run intermediate class about five times a year. My car is mostly stock on staggered extreme summers re11. I was going to go with 500/450 or something similar. Will the stiffer (than stock) spring rates make up for the low bump damping of the konis? will the adjustable rebound be enough for my needs? His will be a track car, no autox.

What is the downside to having to little bump damping?

 

If you have to turn the rebound up to control the stiffer springs, it can cause "reverse jacking" over rough surfaces, where the springs compress easily but the rebound keeps them from returning.

There are other effects as well, but that's one, and I'm not qualified to discuss the others..., ;-)

 

I was Actually concerned about jacking down. Is that reverse jacking?

 

Still think your making a mistake going with these over used KWV3's. Not only are they low on compression force, they are low on rear bump travel as well. That's 2 things promoting running on the rear bump stops ... Wait ... Make that 3 since 450 is a pretty low spring rate if you plan to run lower than 1/2" below stock ride height. Furthermore, Koni's often don't match side to side from the factory, according to other experts that you've no doubt read. If you want to go Koni, maybe just grab some used up ones and get them custom valved for your spring rates, and maybe get the tears shortened while you are at it. Read up on uk_dan's experience, as well as Gernby's. I had considered the Koni route as well, but it ended up not making sense when the proven KWV3's OTS package was so good and so cheap. Low-speed compression is your handling friend, of which the Koni gives you less than stock. You might look at putting 500/450 slight lowering springs on CR shocks. Just something to think about ... Revalved and shortened koni's ... Probably good. OTS ? I've only seen people eventually get rid of them...

 

I like my OTS Yellow/GC combo. 525F/465R. OTS they are more than capable. TC, I am totally curious, not trying to debate, but have you owned Konis?

 

I wouldn't recommend stiffer front springs in the front on a staggered setup.

 

There is a lot of support for KWV3s here. I will say if I found the right set I would definitely consider it. However shocks are a wearable component and I want something fresh. I want something that works, I am a low frills kind of person. I do wonder how much support for the KWV3s here is about things I don't care about. Things like external reservoirs, double adjustability and high bling finishes.

I fully believe Koni is a high quality damper. As good as Bilstein, KW and other mid-market shocks that have been designed an/or built in Europe. The GC kit uses high quality Eibach springs and you can pick your spring rate. As far as matching GC will dyno the shocks for you and adjust them accordingly. We all know the Koni stock valving has plenty of rebound control for springs much stiffer than stock. Twin tubes do have issues, but I my level I am not worried about overheating. So the only real issue I can think of with this setup is the lower (than stock) bump control, hence my post.

All things considered, my thoughts were JDM valves with too much compression damping, too linear, and too little rebound. The Konis solve those issues and allow you to run stiffer springs. Which is my problem now, mild sport springs have created bounciness with the stock shocks.

I keep coming back to the GC/Koni because it seems like a good setup for me. If I were to spend more money (2k ish) I would be looking at Ohlins R&T over the KW. Again the KWs have features that are not a priority to me.

 

I am running the OEM MY00 sways.

What would you recommend for spring rates?

 

I've "owned" Koni's but sold them before installing as I didn't want to spend the money to valve and shorten. If GC will dyno-match 4 shocks for you, and send you the sheets, then yes, you have a decent option. I would keep the rear spring rate up tho to help stay off the bump stops. By the way, the reservoirs and compression adjustability are not bling. They provide bump travel and control of that travel - which makes you faster. We have a local guy who moved from a GC setup to the Ohlin's and gained all kinds of speed ... But ... still routinely gets beat by guys on KW's, including a scenario when the same driver drove a KW car and his back to back on the same course and same day. Similar spring rates and bar rates. And by the way, the Ohlins car was making about 20 lb ft more of torque. Though this is not an exact science by any means, having heard how HUGE an upgrade the Ohlins were over a custom GC setup, and having be Ohlins still get beat by KW setups (of course drivers matter, I'm speaking to potential though), It reasonable to say that the KW's OTS would be quicker than the Koni GC setup. You should buy the $3.50 Kindle book Vehicle Dynamics and Damping and see what the guy (who is kind of a big deal) says about handling and low-speed compression. All that said, if you get 4 fresh dyno-matched Koni's and run the spring rates and ride height high enough, it's no doubt a very good setup for the money. And of course you could custom valve later. But it was sounded like you wanted simple, hence my suggestion. (Even tho I hated going that route because it seemed everyone else was too, lol)

 

So you haven't used the Konis? Those are pretty strong sentiments from someone that hasn't directly compared the Konis.

Does KW provide dyno matched dampers with data sheets? I haven't heard of any off the shelf damper manufacturer doing this (aside from Fortune Auto). I was also under the impression the OTS KW valving wasn't great for the S2000, hence the strong desire to have them revalved (which KW will not do). Monotubes (properly valved) are the big step up in compression performance.

Regarding the original question, with less low speed compression damping it will take longer to (normally) load a tire (that is being compressed). This causes a delay in the tire's ability to produce lateral loads; the chart below is old, but represents the tire loading theory. Since this is for track work, rather than autocross, the small delay may not be terribly significant.