Full Blown Motorsport Unlimited S2000 thread
Thread Starter
Former Moderator
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Thanks guys, I went through a lot of soul searching with this car. After a lot of disappointment along the way, I've been looking for a purpose for the car.
These are some of the conclusions I've reached:
1. For SSM autocross, I don't think the S2000 can get light enough or has enough capacity for displacement to be maximally competitive. Sure, for local events it can do "okay" and it can raw time pretty much anything on DOT tires (except ASP Evos in the wet/cold). But to make the full PAX you need lighter weight or a bigger engine (even using turbo, it's the spool time that rules).
2. For maximal competitiveness in autocross, stock class is the way to go. Minimal prep, minimal cost, real comparisons of driver skill without additional variables. Incredible resale if you pick the right car (the CR is worth more now than when I bought it). Picked up a WRX hatch for local autox and Winter daily driver. Still have the B-stock CR, but the WRX can haul its own tires (and compete in RTA).
3. If you want to go fast and kill PAX locally, F-Mod is the way to go. With a tiny car on a small lot it feels like like a Nationals course! And it's the only way to put down really low times if there aren't acceleration zones for hp cars. And it's cheaper and easier to tow / run / load than an SSM car.
4. For road racing, get something NA and ubiquitous. Something that you can go to your local dealer and get entire engines and transmissions bought and installed in days rather than months. For something that is going to get beaten up, you want something that is easily replaceable. Our SSB Club Racing Civic was going to get buried in T3 by the initial 2013 proposal. But they came up with an alternate proposal to make SSB pretty much unchanged in T4 and SSC has to speed up to stay. So the 06 Civic will remain the W2W car. Parts are cheap and plentiful. Slow cars are fun... when they're faster than the other slow cars!
5. Regardless of how good you are as a driver, it's more fun to be in a fast car if there is no indexing or run grouping by vehicle capability. For an HPDE, TT or recreational event, it never feels good to get your doors blown off.
6. Because racecar. I don't care how my car looks if I'm going to run it hard. I understand that's important to some, for good reason. If it doubles as a show car or if it's a halo car for a series. But for me, racecars are like work boots. If they don't hold up, I don't care if they look pretty. If they do hold up, maybe I'll wipe the dirt off them sometime... or maybe not.
So we have:
F-mod for tight courses
WRX for arrive and drive local autocross in inclement weather
CR for National autocross
Civic SI for SCCA Club Racing
And this car. I still drive it on the street every once in a while. Drop the top and just grin. The Civic is the caged and soon to be gutted car. The turbo S2000, locally referred to as "Captain Insano" didn't really have a purpose. So I figured HPDE with friends might be a good place for it. As a social car. But hey, if I'm going out to HPDE, I might as well just run TT with my SCCA Competition license.
In my head, 2012 was to test reliability of the turbo, engine and tranny setup. It held up pretty well. Left the redline at 8000 while testing durability. Especially since the ID2000s rusted out with E85. Gearing would be too short with that redline, however. Top speed with a redline of 8000 is around 140 mph. Raising the redline to 8500 would give about 150 mph.
Car is still pretty heavy, though. About 2900 pounds. Haven't done any weight reduction at this point since it's just recreational. Still full interior (was required for SSM). But in perspective, it has more power and is still lighter than a GT3 RS 4.0. Should be a good starting point.
Brake system is still stock except for front ducts and stainless lines. Using TT as a shake down, I think it'll be a good test.
Not sure how the future will go. If the car blows up, I part out the pieces parts and buy something OEM fast. If it holds together, I may move it to a dedicated track car (full gut and cage). Would get a BBK at that time. But as long as the Civic is competitive in class, there's very little motivation to make another full trailer queen.
These are some of the conclusions I've reached:
1. For SSM autocross, I don't think the S2000 can get light enough or has enough capacity for displacement to be maximally competitive. Sure, for local events it can do "okay" and it can raw time pretty much anything on DOT tires (except ASP Evos in the wet/cold). But to make the full PAX you need lighter weight or a bigger engine (even using turbo, it's the spool time that rules).
2. For maximal competitiveness in autocross, stock class is the way to go. Minimal prep, minimal cost, real comparisons of driver skill without additional variables. Incredible resale if you pick the right car (the CR is worth more now than when I bought it). Picked up a WRX hatch for local autox and Winter daily driver. Still have the B-stock CR, but the WRX can haul its own tires (and compete in RTA).
3. If you want to go fast and kill PAX locally, F-Mod is the way to go. With a tiny car on a small lot it feels like like a Nationals course! And it's the only way to put down really low times if there aren't acceleration zones for hp cars. And it's cheaper and easier to tow / run / load than an SSM car.
4. For road racing, get something NA and ubiquitous. Something that you can go to your local dealer and get entire engines and transmissions bought and installed in days rather than months. For something that is going to get beaten up, you want something that is easily replaceable. Our SSB Club Racing Civic was going to get buried in T3 by the initial 2013 proposal. But they came up with an alternate proposal to make SSB pretty much unchanged in T4 and SSC has to speed up to stay. So the 06 Civic will remain the W2W car. Parts are cheap and plentiful. Slow cars are fun... when they're faster than the other slow cars!
5. Regardless of how good you are as a driver, it's more fun to be in a fast car if there is no indexing or run grouping by vehicle capability. For an HPDE, TT or recreational event, it never feels good to get your doors blown off.
6. Because racecar. I don't care how my car looks if I'm going to run it hard. I understand that's important to some, for good reason. If it doubles as a show car or if it's a halo car for a series. But for me, racecars are like work boots. If they don't hold up, I don't care if they look pretty. If they do hold up, maybe I'll wipe the dirt off them sometime... or maybe not.
So we have:
F-mod for tight courses
WRX for arrive and drive local autocross in inclement weather
CR for National autocross
Civic SI for SCCA Club Racing
And this car. I still drive it on the street every once in a while. Drop the top and just grin. The Civic is the caged and soon to be gutted car. The turbo S2000, locally referred to as "Captain Insano" didn't really have a purpose. So I figured HPDE with friends might be a good place for it. As a social car. But hey, if I'm going out to HPDE, I might as well just run TT with my SCCA Competition license.
In my head, 2012 was to test reliability of the turbo, engine and tranny setup. It held up pretty well. Left the redline at 8000 while testing durability. Especially since the ID2000s rusted out with E85. Gearing would be too short with that redline, however. Top speed with a redline of 8000 is around 140 mph. Raising the redline to 8500 would give about 150 mph.
Car is still pretty heavy, though. About 2900 pounds. Haven't done any weight reduction at this point since it's just recreational. Still full interior (was required for SSM). But in perspective, it has more power and is still lighter than a GT3 RS 4.0. Should be a good starting point.
Brake system is still stock except for front ducts and stainless lines. Using TT as a shake down, I think it'll be a good test.
Not sure how the future will go. If the car blows up, I part out the pieces parts and buy something OEM fast. If it holds together, I may move it to a dedicated track car (full gut and cage). Would get a BBK at that time. But as long as the Civic is competitive in class, there's very little motivation to make another full trailer queen.
Thread Starter
Former Moderator
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Also, doing some quick Mathz:
Currently, car is at 3050 with driver and 473 whp.
TTU adjusted wt/hp has to be above 5.50
We sit at 6.45 -0.2 (sequential) - 0.1 (weight) - 0.75 (non-DOT tires) = 5.4
So as it stands, we either have to back down hp, add weight, or run DOT tires.
It's fun to think it's already at the tip of max prep.
I'm already at the limit of injector at 8000 rpm. Looking at the curve, I could make a lot more power but that doesn't help me in class with the 5.5 limit. I don't want to go heavier. I think a better option would be to detune the top for less peak hp. I do want to run the stickiest tires available. Moar cornering grip = moar fun.
Currently, car is at 3050 with driver and 473 whp.
TTU adjusted wt/hp has to be above 5.50
We sit at 6.45 -0.2 (sequential) - 0.1 (weight) - 0.75 (non-DOT tires) = 5.4
So as it stands, we either have to back down hp, add weight, or run DOT tires.
It's fun to think it's already at the tip of max prep.
I'm already at the limit of injector at 8000 rpm. Looking at the curve, I could make a lot more power but that doesn't help me in class with the 5.5 limit. I don't want to go heavier. I think a better option would be to detune the top for less peak hp. I do want to run the stickiest tires available. Moar cornering grip = moar fun.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Also, doing some quick Mathz:
Currently, car is at 3050 with driver and 473 whp.
TTU adjusted wt/hp has to be above 5.50
We sit at 6.45 -0.2 (sequential) - 0.1 (weight) - 0.75 (non-DOT tires) = 5.4
So as it stands, we either have to back down hp, add weight, or run DOT tires.
It's fun to think it's already at the tip of max prep.
I'm already at the limit of injector at 8000 rpm. Looking at the curve, I could make a lot more power but that doesn't help me in class with the 5.5 limit. I don't want to go heavier. I think a better option would be to detune the top for less peak hp. I do want to run the stickiest tires available. Moar cornering grip = moar fun.
Currently, car is at 3050 with driver and 473 whp.
TTU adjusted wt/hp has to be above 5.50
We sit at 6.45 -0.2 (sequential) - 0.1 (weight) - 0.75 (non-DOT tires) = 5.4
So as it stands, we either have to back down hp, add weight, or run DOT tires.
It's fun to think it's already at the tip of max prep.
I'm already at the limit of injector at 8000 rpm. Looking at the curve, I could make a lot more power but that doesn't help me in class with the 5.5 limit. I don't want to go heavier. I think a better option would be to detune the top for less peak hp. I do want to run the stickiest tires available. Moar cornering grip = moar fun.
Yes, I say go for the detune. I think constant hp from about 6k rpm to the redline would be perfect, and then get the car down to whatever weight gets you to that 5.4. *_*
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 0
Ckit, you've out-done yourself! I can't wait to see more race vids.
One question though --> I noticed that you're still running the stock radiator... How long do you think that's going to last?
Thread Starter
Former Moderator
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Here's a crazy first gear vid. Not the best driving on my part, but you can get a sense of how crazy the car is when it's at full boost.
[media]http://youtu.be/mbOvKb4t90I[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOvKb4t90I[/media]