CG

Without an aftermarket swaybar we've been fighting an almost losing battle with oversteer on our local airport runways. On Sunday we were running well worn Kumhos on the front and new Kumhos on the rear. It was a fairly fast course with well over half of it taken in 3rd gear. In general the car stuck like glue and the rear never stepped out more than a few inches. The problem we had with the car this time was understeer. In the lower speed transitions the front end kept washing out. Adding power wouldn't send the tail out at all and just added to the problem. The only thing that would make the front end stay planted was to decelerate through tight turns or to take them very slowly. Simply unwinding the wheel to counteract the understeer wouldn't work.

With all this understeer I DNFed two of my six runs and killed more cones than I hit in all of last year. My wife also killed more of them than she hit last year. I only had one clean run the whole day. Even so our times were pretty good, the closest stock category time to me was an SS Firehawk that I beat by about 1.5 seconds (even with a cone) with my wife 3rd in stock class a couple of tenths behind the Firehawk.

The event was a blast and this car would be gawdaweful fast if I could just get both ends to stick at the same time. I think Jason is right in that the car really needs an adjustable bar for different surfaces and or tires.

Jason Saini

Interesting analysis, CG... It sounds like your fronts are toast as well. Maybe they have too many heat cycles? I've come to the conclusion that we'll wear out the rear tires before they heat-cycle to death, and we'll heat-cycle our fronts to death before they wear out.

As for our experiences with the swyabar, on Saturday there was *less* grip... In those conditions, the car oversteered pretty badly. I was fighting the car all the way around the course. I had thought that low-grip surfaces would make the car understeer with the big bar, but the opposite is true. I wish we could have dialed in more front bar.

On Sunday, on a damp but drying track, there was suddenly a ton of grip. I am thinking that a fine layer of oil was washed off by the night's rain. The car was again balanced and neutral like it was in Ft. Myers. I got oversteer and understeer all in one run, due to driver inputs.

My conclusion is this... the S2K is built on such a stiff platform that suspension setup changes really have an effect on the 'feel' of the car. This transfers to changes in grip as well... surface changes are really apparent on this car. Cars with more flexible chassis mask the changes in surface grip, or any setup changes. Therefore, an adjustable swaybar is a must for serious competition... it seems that very small changes will really make a difference. This is the feedback that I'll be giving Comptech in my review of the bar... I'd like to be able to go both softer and stiffer than this... which means slightly thinner wall thickness with an adjustable endlink. Not sure what the exact numbers would be, but I'm sure Comptech has some ideas. I'd also still like to do a blade-type swaybar with King Motorsports. I'll run whatever bar I think gives us the best chances to win!

Banannie

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=7797

For info on our not-so-fun time in the wet (essentially no grip) with the Comptech bar, see my post at the bottom of this thread - this was on pretty bald kumhos...

Annie

RacerX

To provide more data in the mix...
Last year when we ran at MGA (the course with the cone shortage), I experienced some interesting behavior myself. Bone stock (happy to report that's not true anymore!), I spun out twice in one run. The first time, I blew it. I went from steering to the right to steering to the left with no steady-state. Goodbye tail! (or is it hello tail?) Later that same run, on a straightaway, poof! There I go again. I hadn't even gotten to the kink in the straight! Later, I walked that ground trying to figure out the problem, and noticed more grit on the track than in earlier runs.

However, there wasn't THAT much more grit on the surface. Small changes do appear to make a large difference in this car's properties.

Datum: A special compound of OEM tires
Datum: Honda's bulletin on not switching tires
Datum: Forum Threads on different tires having wide differences in handling characteristics
etc, etc.

The key point here, as Jason stated, is why? Answering this question will help point out next steps and what to make adjustable to support us in our pursuit of winning (sorry, it's not a competition, we do this for fun (yeah, and it's an honor being nominated too ;-p~)).

Sooo, the only current hypothesis is that the s2k is so stiff that swapping parts that can change handling characteristics can magnify the effect of those changes. Now, the only way to test this without investing some serious time is to look at other cars with stiff bodies and solicit advice. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm pretty certain some of us can chat up the King Motorsports team regarding this on their car, ditto with the Comptech folks for s2k comparsions. Anyone know of cars with stiff (or stiffened) bodies (no jokes ;p!)out there that fall into the same general category as the s2k?