Again it's one person's opinion.

Abuse:
-As I said, the oil, water, transmission fluid, diff fluid temps none of those get to operating temp
-hard launches which apparently are diffs are the weak link in the s2k
-tires cold tear

Factors that aren't consistent:
-Brake temps fluctuate from cold to warm
-Tire temps fluctuate from cold to warm
-suspension doesn't get to operating temp range
-course changes
-no ability review footage and work on a particular segment

bang for buck:
so far my auto-x experience has been less than stellar. Long ass lines and few runs for wasting 1/2 to an entire day. Typically the auto-x clubs I have gone you queue up and get 2 laps then go back to waiting interminably. I agree beating on your car for 25mins ain't ideal but no one said you have to stay out your entire run session at a track day.

...and the biggest deal breaker - on my off day going out to play with my car and having to work the course and pay for my run time??! Insult to injury!

Imho if you are going to waste time auto-x you might as well go to a local indoor go kart place and learn there, it's cheaper more convenient, more relevant and you get to abuse someone else's equipment.

I always found this entry funny:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=cone%20dodger

btw don't get butt hurt everyone has their opinions, i'm sure wheel to wheel racers find track days pretty lame having to point someone by or having to drive in one's mirrors

 

Again it's one person's opinion.

Abuse:
-As I said, the oil, water, transmission fluid, diff fluid temps none of those get to operating temp
-hard launches which apparently are diffs are the weak link in the s2k
-tires cold tear

Factors that aren't consistent:
-Brake temps fluctuate from cold to warm
-Tire temps fluctuate from cold to warm
-suspension doesn't get to operating temp range
-course changes
-no ability review footage and work on a particular segment

bang for buck:
so far my auto-x experience has been less than stellar. Long ass lines and few runs for wasting 1/2 to an entire day. Typically the auto-x clubs I have gone you queue up and get 2 laps then go back to waiting interminably. I agree beating on your car for 25mins ain't ideal but no one said you have to stay out your entire run session at a track day.

...and the biggest deal breaker - on my off day going out to play with my car and having to work the course and pay for my run time??! Insult to injury!

Imho if you are going to waste time auto-x you might as well go to a local indoor go kart place and learn there, it's cheaper more convenient, more relevant and you get to abuse someone else's equipment.

I always found this entry funny:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=cone%20dodger

btw don't get butt hurt everyone has their opinions, i'm sure wheel to wheel racers find track days pretty lame having to point someone by or having to drive in one's mirrors
[/quote]

We're not getting butt hurt, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm just disputing the fact-based stuff you're talking about so there's no misinformation being spread. It sounds like you have a crappy club and not much experience autocrossing so it makes sense you don't have a big picture view of it.

Most autocross clubs you go out and do your runs at 10-20 minute intervals then you're done. You start up your car beforehand so it gets to operating temp. Then you brake a couple times going up to the line. Voila, everything up to temp other than tires. If you're running street tires, then they're already up to temp assuming it's not winter since ambient temp is their ideal temp. Between runs there's not enough time for things to cool down below race temps.

You pick brake pads for colder temperatures, so therefore "brakes fluctuating from cold to warm" doesn't matter. Tire temps, same thing. Suspension operating temp - there's no such thing.

The two points you made that do make sense are the launches and the course changing every time. The course changing every time is a plus in many ways - you have to actually have good car control, you don't know right off the bat that you can go into it at exactly 87 mph and you turn in at exactly this marker and etc etc. But yes it makes it harder to perfect. And the launches, sure, it's kinda hard on the diff. But on street tires, not horrible. My S2000 has probably close to 1,000 launches on it and it's doing just fine. Of course it could break tomorrow but even so that's not bad. I would have spent many times the cost of a diff on brake rotors alone if I had been tracking as much as I had been autocrossing.

As for the rest of the stuff, clearly either your club sucks or autocross isn't for you, I'm not gonna argue with your opinions. I'll just say I disagree with all of it so people reading it should keep an open mind. There are plenty of pro race car drivers that attribute autocross as being the biggest factor that got them to where they are today. Karts can do it too. Whatever floats your boat.

 

Auto cross isn't going to do anything for you when it comes to controlling the car at high speeds, because the issue isn't controlling the car, it is more about keeping your head at high speeds, which is much more likely the problem.

You have to get seat time in the scenario you want to improve at or spend 1000 hours in Gran Turismo.

 

Who's butt hurt? I did auto-xing for a couple years and found the same problems that you experienced, hence I only did track days this year, but we were strictly talking about car abuse. Autox-ing is hands down easier on your car imo. About the only thing that might see minor "abuse" is the diff as that does have an operating temp range, other than that.. you don't even shift (most of the time) in autox, so tranny wear staying in one gear is practically non-existant imo.

Regarding auto-xing, it most certainly teaches someone the limits of THEIR car in a lower speed environment. Throwing a car into a turn at 25mph and countersteering can be fun with zero concern. 50+mph with a wall at the end of the turn maybe not. I wasn't advocating going auto-xing, merely being able to push your car at lower speeds and getting a good feel for the car. With that said, certain events are run much better than others. Some are only half day and you can get a lot of runs in. The seat time is nothing compared to 4 25+ min session in one day, but it's also a lot cheaper and requires little/no work before or after to prepare.

 

People who want to find a reason to think something sucks will find a reason that it sucks.
If you want to find a way to make it better, you can usually find a way to make it better.

I enjoy W2W, think most DE is lame, but love autocross for the competition.
Again, finding the root cause of the type of spin OP is talking about is key.
Some types of spins can be worked on at lower speeds, some cannot.

My solution for autocross? I do it with my wife, hang out with my friends, and instruct as a work assignment.
Have a great day hanging out and get to do a little competing too. All for $30-60.

It's only a waste of time if you let it be. Also, little known fact: it is legal to have someone work your assignment for you. Sometimes I pay a high school kid $20 to work for my wife when she has weekend work meetings. She just shows up and runs. Then goes home. We're well enough known at our local club that she gets waivered out of the drivers meeting.

 

I will say that you can "get away" with a lot of stuff autocrossing badly that will bite you on track. But if you're meticulous about running neat and objectively fast autocrossing (i.e. not drifting or throwing), you will have good track habits.

 

WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED OF THIS BEFORE?

Seriously, that changes things a lot.

 

Think of all the crappy lawns I used to mow for shit money as a teenager. Standing around watching cars and picking up an occasional cone or two? Cake.

Usually there's a kid of an autocrosser looking to pick up some gas money. I arrange it beforehand with them directly. Works out great.

 

Noted... Thanks Charles!

This may make me attempt to learn a new motorsport discipline...

 

Cal club has split day events as it is. With the combination of a split day and paying someone to do the work assignment, you could get in and out pretty quickly.