Bam!!! I was wondering the same thing. Would you mind sharing a video showing this problem? If you are seeing this push in tight turns and seems to be okay elsewhere, it might be DIU (driver induced understeer) and cannot be adjust out with car settings but with driving technique. I can say this I am the king of DIU.

-Dave

 

This is why I like the STR discussions. You can get tons of feedback.

I am in hurry this morning but wanted to send a quick post. I pulled my alignment sheet after all the discussions about my alignment. I am actually only at 2.3 degrees in the front. That was the max we could get it. That seems like it is exacerbating the problem. I am thinking I am going to go ahead and get either the SPC or J's Racing front camber kits. I want to get the alignment set and then adjust from there, 2.3 in the front appears very light.

Thanks again for all the responses, I will go back through them again tonight.

- B

 

I didnt realize you didn't have camber joints. I vote j's because it widings the track width and doesn't have any moving parts. The hardrace ones are j's copy's and much cheaper. Some people like the spc ones but you have to over tq them and check them every so often. I opted for no moving parts. Good luck, fix that camber and I think you'll be much happier with the car. As for the softer bar setting, the guy that said that has his bar setting 83lbs/in less then your. It would be like your bar on 4/6. If you run on open courses like in his video he posted last night then it's a good idea "maybe" but on most autocross courses they are tight and you'll want that fast weight transfer of the stiff bar. Now don't forget what me and Dave said about DUI. It takes a driver change to drive a car with a stiff bar. It used to be a issue for me and still is when I'm off my line, don't think and ask alot out of the steering wheel. The car just won't turn. If you go more that 90 degrees worth turning the wheel while going "fast" that's too much and will cause push. In a low speed off throttle situation you can turn the wheel up to 180 degrees but make sure your unwinding the wheel before gettig in the gas or it will push. This isnt a set-up issue that can be fixed, it takes a driving change. If you find your doing this just set up earlier and have the car turning before you get to the turn.

This is how The pros like Marc P drive so fast! They set-up for the turn early and have the car turning before the element which allows them to get on the throttle up to a second sooner then the compitition. I have yet to master this but I've seen Mark do it very very well.

 

Dang! How can I ever reply to everything that has been typed already.

I have a better question...how many times did you have to be told what you were doing wrong before it finally "clicked"? Everything you guys (Dave/Josh) are saying fits me to a "T". I know I am still new. I justed started in May and then had a month break after smacking a pole at the Street Tire Challenge in ATL. I "understand" everything most people are saying, it is just the executing that is tough.

I am very lucky to have a co-driver who is considerably faster than I am. He actually just bought a full blown Race Keeper system to help with driver development. Kinda funny watching the video and he is turning his head to yell at me, "What are you doing???" I will post a video after the even this upcoming weekend.

Back to the car:
- Feedback on the car from faster drivers has consistently been since the spring change that it is pushing. Shock setting have toned it down but not enough. I have ordered a set of the Hardrace Camber Ball Joints. They will be here Wednesday, on Thursday, and aligned on Friday. I am going to up the front to the -2.9 range and then lower the rear to around 2.8.

 

Oh... I've known about DIU for years (since 2004). Just as I was getting much better at avoiding it, I switched over to street tires. That totally screwed me. The good news is that once you learn how to drive on street tires, you will drive like a hero on Hoosiers. LOL

I can say is that I've heard the Evo instructors saying over and over... "Patience, patience, patience" on the slow elements. i.e. drive on defense and try not to over drive and screw yourself by giving away time. When I see those tight/patience turns, I try to give it up so I can to shorten the course by going tight, tight, tight and once the car starts to come out of it get on the throttle. Too soon will cost you time with push.

Another thing on those crappy tight elements... If you "soften" it by turning before you get into it, you spread the grip to more tires vs. over blowing the 2 fronts. I was at a nearby region that often has Corvette friendly courses. My co-driver, Mark, was beating me by 1.5 seconds. He was doing this by turning before getting into it. Where I was dive bombing it and then turning hard in the turns. My fronts said f' this and pushed. I only bring this up as I struggle with it so much and you cannot take all of it out with setup. My co-driver kicked my ass with the same setup.

IMO, you resolve the push in the slow elements, it is almost like improving .3-.5 seconds on each one.

-Dave

 

Oh boy. Have I made a mistake? (at least when it comes to AutoX). I posted in another thread my intentions to purchase a "cheaper" '01 and sell my '06 in an attempt to reduce my debt so I can afford to race more in '12.

My thinking was the all the talk between AP1 and AP2 was just fluff, 6 to one, half dozen to another. Basically, I didn't care. Well, I bought a '01 with 122k on the odometer. I took all my mods and put them on the the AP1; header, HFC, Exhaust, Ohlins, Gendron Sway, MX5 rear sway, Hardrace Camber Joints, blah blah blah....Today was the first event. One word...anemic. I just can not believe how it feels. It feels so under powered than '06. I can say this, my co-driver drove his stock AP2 and my AP1 was .500 faster but it still felt so darn week.

I call the previous owner. Everything is new under the hood. ie...plugs, coil packs, etc....so no tune up is needed. He kept re-itterating that he felt the AP1 was like a row boat in regards to downshift in very slow corners. (This course had 4 slow reverse direction corners). The #1 concern out side of the lack of torque was rev limiter. When we hit the rev limiter it was like hitting wall, the car would just fall on it's face and then recover and then do it again. My AP2 was just ride the rev limiter with no fall on its face feeling. What was that all about? I will post a video soon. It almost felt like fuel starve, I was running 3/4 tank.

After talking with the prior owner, he said he would take the car back after the Nashville Tour this weekend if I still felt like something was wrong.

Okay, I am going to see what ya'll have to say and give me some opinions. My apologies if this is rambling, I am 6 beers into washing away my worries. :-)

 

In lower RPM (idle-4.5k) my 2001 115k mile AP1 (K&N FIPK, Ricks Header, Berk 63mm HFC, Greddy Ti-C) felt a little weak compared to my friends stock CR, 4.5k-6k it felt about the same (maybe a slight advantage to the stock CR), and above 6k mine felt significantly stronger. My shift to 1st was definitely getting me out of tight stuff quicker but stuff that was just tight enough to drop me into my mid range, he was able to accelerate better through since he would be at slightly higher RPM due to the shorter gearing. Also mine just rides the rev limiter in the manor you described your AP2.

 

I am going to run the AP1 at Nashville this weekend and see what happens. I am going to run a full tank of fuel. I don't understand how my car feels like it is falling flat for a second when it hits the rev limiter.

Based upon today and the car I have there is no way an AP1 will compete with an AP2.

Here is a video from today..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri3ZNt6hSgU&feature=player_embedded#!

 

I had posted a question about the two different ways the S2000 handles hitting the rev limiter. The net/net of what made sense to me is... depending how hard/abruptly you hit the rev limiter will determine if you get the hard (fuel cut) or soft (beautiful... bahbahbahbah) limiter. If you come to the rev limiter very fast/abrupt (i.e likely the 1st gear hit), fuel cut can bite you in the butt. If you watch the videos that I posted in the Blytheville Tri-state NT, it shows my AP1 doing the soft limiter in 2nd at the walloms ... Makes me smile just thinking about it. LOL

At the local events, I find myself really struggling being out of the powerband a lot compared to the AP2... A lot! Hence me downshifting A LOT... For the bigger events, it is a matter of course design and more importantly the driver, which is going to be the one on top.

-Dave

 

yea the power doesn't feel there because it does have less tq but 2 ap1's did really well at nats. Sorry about your findings hopefully tuning fixes this..