Bold and outrageous? If I was going to make a bold and outrageous statement I would have come up with something far more clever and interesting. The point that I'm sure some people understood was that an aftermarket harness will provide far more protection than a stock 3 point in the event of a rollover. But you're right--even a 6 pt. harness won't be able to save your ass 100% of the time. But it will definitely help (and in some accidents) completely prevent head to bar contact.

The last thing I want to do is recommend something--or drive in a car--that is unsafe. I've done my research and I've never run across any data to support your claim that even with a 5 or 6 point harness your head will always smack the rollbar. Instead of cursing my darkness, please--light a candle.

When I installed my seat and harness my head was exactly 5.5" away from the closest part of my Bitterman bar. With the belts tightened properly I can only muster enough strength and shoulder deformity to get my head within 3" of the bar (and the 3" is a diagonal measurement--the car would have to land upside-down with the front of the car higher than the rear to 'pull' my head back at the right angle to bring my head in contact with the bar.)

How many G's will a 175lb body have to pull at just the right angle to stretch the belts far enough for a head to scramble? Do Schroth harnesses seriously stretch 1" for every 3" in length? In a rollover with a properly mounted and secured harness how many inches does a body travel? How many accidents do you know of in the S2000 where a 6 pt. harness hasn't prevented head to bar contact? Other similar cars? You seem to be an authority on the subject--please share.

 

If you're going to make blanket claims that harnesses will prevent head-bar contact, I feel you should be the one to provide evidence to back up your claim. Sitting in your car and trying to stretch is not evidence. Impacts subject a body to 1000s of times more energy than your muscles can produce.

I'm not saying every accident will result in a head-bar impact. I'm trying to counter your misinformation that a harness will prevent 100% of incidents. I am NOT an expert on the subject, but I can spot BS when I see it. Let's bring a little scientific reasoning to this subject. It's too important for anecdotal arguments.

By the way, belts are designed to stretch up to 20% of their length: http://www.racerwholesale.com/forms/harnessinstall.pdf

 

I'm a climber. I have intimate experience with the stretchiness of nylon. It stretches a lot more than you might expect.

The key element in roll bar safety is more the helmet than the harness. If you were willing to wear the helmet around all the time on the street, you would probably be fine. You can also pad the roll bar with the same kind of styrofoam padding that lines the helmet, and that would help a lot too.

But the safety systems are all designed to work together. The street system has airbags, seatbelt pretensioners, no roll bar to smack your head on, and a seatback that will give and (maybe) not hold your head up above the roll hoops in a rollover.

The track system has no airbags, 6-pt harness that gives a lot less, rigid seat that won't let the harness loads snap your back, roll bar to protect you because the seat won't collapse in a rollover, and helmet to protect you from hitting the roll bar. And these days a HANS type device to protect your neck.

Mixing and matching is bad news, IMO. Your car, your decision.

 

You guys are in denial if you think your head can't the roll bar in a crash. Ever watch any goverment or insurance institute crash test video? Those are mostly 40 mph or less! The amount of dynamic movement is a lot more than you would ever think possible.

That being said I drive my M3 with rollbar on the street all the time, I just don't live in denial that it's not an safety issue. I ride motorcycles too, certianly a lot less safe than cars, but it's my choice.

Speaking of crash tests, have you ever wonder what's going to happen to you head in a side impact when it hits that convertible top mechanism?

 

The custom lowered Taitec rails had the rear cross-member removed and replaced with a curved one that followed the contour of the S2000 floor. That way, I could lower the rear of the seat about another inch compared to the way the rails come from the factory.

Have any of you thought about what would happen in a side impact when the top is up in our car? There is a hard, irregularly shaped piece of metal sitting right next to my temple - it's part of the soft top frame. Makes me wonder what could happen to me in a completely stock car too.

I'd do my best to make the car safe on the track and then accept the reality that you are putting yourself at risk no matter what you do. Adding a rollbar, seat and harness may lower some aspects of that risk, but will never eliminate them. Also, adding these items to a street car may lower your risk in some situations while raising it in others.

 

Not everyone faces the same problem, I'm just a little 5' 9.5" guy.

I lowered my stock seats and my head is a long way a ways from my rollbar. YES, I KNOW in the right accident on the street my head stands the chance of taking a whack, but based upon my seating position being so low and away from the bar, I'm happy with the level of risk. Bottom line- I'm way more at risk every time I go out on the motorcycle, and I am not living my life in fear hiding in the closet.

ALSO- keep in mind, if you try to do something with the stock hoops or something in the location of the stock hoops you also run into a height issue. Most rollbars are forward of those, thus they can be higher. The max height is determined by the arc of the soft-top movement going up or down and back where the OEM hoops are they have to be shorter unless you want to no longer have a soft-top that goes up and down.

 

Curious to hear people's thoughts on this:

Is the S2000 a sports car for the shorter man? It's so able and so well designed, yet I can't safely (and comfortably) track the car to realize it's full potential (legally) becuase I am just under 6'2"

I'm considering exploring the used sports car market (read: $5,000 range) for a 944 or something to track. It's just so unfortunate that a car with these capabilities is not a viable option for me due to my height. I realize my height is above average, but I'd say I'm within the standard deviation.

 

The way I look at it is that on the track or especially on the street, rollover accidents are much more rare than collision accidents. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to compromise the safety of the car in a likely accident in order to protect from an unlikely accident.

If the car were a track-only car, I would definitely go the roll-bar route. But that's because I would always be wearing a helmet.

Bottom line is that choosing to drive a roadster is like choosing to drive a motorcycle -- there are compromises involved.

 

As an FYI, I choose to do the rollbar because it was THE ONLY WAY I could continue to drive with the organization I teach for, and as my schools are free as a barter for teaching it was a rather easy thing to decide... and I love the S2000 on the track.

 

Is it possible (or a bad idea) to use a racing shell with a harness without a rollbar? Does someone make a harness bar for our car?