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Novice Track Wheel and Tire Setup

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Old May 12, 2015 | 07:10 PM
  #11  
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Max front camber which is going to be about -1.8. Subtract .3 to .5 from the max you get and that is your rear (about -2.2). 6* castor. 0 front toe. .20 degrees rear toe (.4 degrees total). That's degrees not inches.

Edit: I would go ahead and install offset ballpoints (Megan or hardrace). You can go with more like -2.5 camber all around. All the advise I give is the exact setup I ran my first year. I didn't install the ballpoints that first year though and my front outside shoulders got shredded.
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Old May 12, 2015 | 07:18 PM
  #12  
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Great thread. I'm in the same boat wanting to track my AP2.
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Old May 12, 2015 | 08:44 PM
  #13  
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You sound pretty green to tracking the s2000 or track in general; so good choice on going with the oem staggered 225/45 255/40 setup. This basically a CR setup + 10 mm up on the front tire. CR rear wheel = ap2 rear wheel size so 255/40/17 is perfectly fine. As previously mentioned; this means you don't have to waste time working out the kinks like rolling or pulling fenders.

Everybody is different; but I like to exact the maximum out of my car's current setup before I goof around and change too many things. Choices and options lead to disastrous setups for most people. I preach the same thing to new drivers; the less you can adjust; the easier it is for you to get out there and improve driver skill and not get lost in a see of tire/wheel configurations; brake pad stagger and rebound/compression and ride height setups.

As far as alignment goes; I take it from your sig that you have an AP2:
Camber: Max Square negative camber (assuming you have stock balljoints; stock suspension) up to negative -2.0 degrees (most likely you will be camber limited in the front). 0 cross camber front; 0 cross camber in the rear
Front Toe: 0 toe; 0 cross toe
Rear Toe: 1/16" toe in per side; 1/8" total toe in; 0 cross toe
Caster: Maximum caster up to 7.0 degrees

This should give you a fairly forgiving setup to grow into; you don't want a bucking bronco to learn how to control. A lot of static negative camber is great for corner speed but it will unsettle the uninitiated in terms of braking and setup for the turn. -2.0 degrees of negative camber (if your car can achieve that all the way around, most likely all you will be able to get is -1.8 degrees camber & 6.5 degrees of caster) should be sufficient until you become significantly more skilled

Most importantly watch your tire pressures/tire temps and keep those in check.
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Old May 13, 2015 | 10:54 AM
  #14  
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I will also say AP2's with 225/255 RS3 or equivalent. I love this setup on a pretty much stock AP1. Like yourself, I decided not to go with a square setup until I feel like I have developed my driving more.
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Old May 13, 2015 | 06:02 PM
  #15  
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I would say that's a good plan but the RS3 will allow you go faster, and also probably break away faster than a slightly worse tire. Why not get some V12s or otherwise HTR Z3s (not sure if these have been replaced but you get the idea), which will still be good enough but a better tire to learn on. Just food for thought.
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Old May 13, 2015 | 06:37 PM
  #16  
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Thanks for the additional advice, everyone.

Gptoyz, thanks for the alignment suggestion. I imagine this will result in increased inner tire wear? Not a dealbreaker, just wondering if it was something to keep an eye on.

Clarkster009, thank you for the suggestion. My track events thus far have been done on HTRZ3s, actually. For any other track newbies reading this, they served me well, partly because they are so absurdly cheap that I didn't mind trashing them. Example 1. Example 2.
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Old May 13, 2015 | 10:34 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by JSenek
Thanks for the additional advice, everyone.

Gptoyz, thanks for the alignment suggestion. I imagine this will result in increased inner tire wear? Not a dealbreaker, just wondering if it was something to keep an eye on.

Clarkster009, thank you for the suggestion. My track events thus far have been done on HTRZ3s, actually. For any other track newbies reading this, they served me well, partly because they are so absurdly cheap that I didn't mind trashing them. Example 1. Example 2.
alignment is a pick your poison thing; if you don't have enough camber, you will kill your shoulders on the track. too much toe is the real tire wear killer and I run very modest toe.

i watched your video briefly - couple of critiques:
#1 if you are not shifting; your hands should be on the steering wheel
#2 if your hands are on the steering wheel they should be @ 9 & 3. Don't shuffle your hands; don't re grip; this allows your arms to develop muscle memory for how much steering input is required with repetitive laps. I don't think there is a turn on a race track I have been to that required me to regrip
#3 you look kind of tall, do you have a roll bar or do you pass the broomstick test? if not...see #4
#4 consider a fixed bucket; you are all over the place in the turns
#5 relax your grip; I can see the strain you are putting on the steering wheel from the video!
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Old May 14, 2015 | 06:07 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by gptoyz
alignment is a pick your poison thing; if you don't have enough camber, you will kill your shoulders on the track. too much toe is the real tire wear killer and I run very modest toe.

i watched your video briefly - couple of critiques:
#1 if you are not shifting; your hands should be on the steering wheel
#2 if your hands are on the steering wheel they should be @ 9 & 3. Don't shuffle your hands; don't re grip; this allows your arms to develop muscle memory for how much steering input is required with repetitive laps. I don't think there is a turn on a race track I have been to that required me to regrip
#3 you look kind of tall, do you have a roll bar or do you pass the broomstick test? if not...see #4
#4 consider a fixed bucket; you are all over the place in the turns
#5 relax your grip; I can see the strain you are putting on the steering wheel from the video!
Thanks for the advice!
#1 Yes, I absolutely need to get better about this bad habit. Shift or don't.
#2 I had no idea about this one. Thanks!
#3 No aftermarket rollbar, just the stock hoops. Broomstick test?
#4 & #5: Yeah, with the stock seats and belts, I find myself really having to grip like a beast to keep myself seated. I would love a fixed bucket, and it's definitely on my list for when my budget allows. What do you think about a Modifry seat belt lock as a "better than nothing" stopgap in the meantime?
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Old May 14, 2015 | 06:22 AM
  #19  
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I'll chime in since I started on some HTR Z3's first as well. I'd say moving to an EHP tire like a Z2, RS3 is fine. Breakaway characteristics of EHP tires are better in the sense that they tend to be more forgiving at the limit. My Z3's tended to just let go at the limit, although they were probably heat cycled out as well. You'll really appreciate the EHP tires after running a few times on the HTR Z3's. They have more grip, handle heat better, and have better breakaway characteristics.

Get a modifry seat belt lock. I run it and it makes a huge difference. The modifry shift beeper is also a great help as I never have to look down at the dash and don't have to try to listen to the engine sound to know when to shift.

Regarding shuffle steering. This is something that you should try to avoid, but in some cases (when you have to go to near opposite lock to say countersteer) I say do whatever works for you. It takes practice though. Shuffle steering works for some people, and doesn't for others. Ultimately you gotta find what works for you. I think starting out and for most driving though you don't want to use shuffle steering.

Edit: Oh ya, I'd run 225/255 on some AP2 wheels till you want to move to a square setup.
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Old May 14, 2015 | 08:21 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by JSenek
Originally Posted by gptoyz' timestamp='1431585293' post='23612340
alignment is a pick your poison thing; if you don't have enough camber, you will kill your shoulders on the track. too much toe is the real tire wear killer and I run very modest toe.

i watched your video briefly - couple of critiques:
#1 if you are not shifting; your hands should be on the steering wheel
#2 if your hands are on the steering wheel they should be @ 9 & 3. Don't shuffle your hands; don't re grip; this allows your arms to develop muscle memory for how much steering input is required with repetitive laps. I don't think there is a turn on a race track I have been to that required me to regrip
#3 you look kind of tall, do you have a roll bar or do you pass the broomstick test? if not...see #4
#4 consider a fixed bucket; you are all over the place in the turns
#5 relax your grip; I can see the strain you are putting on the steering wheel from the video!
Thanks for the advice!
#1 Yes, I absolutely need to get better about this bad habit. Shift or don't.
#2 I had no idea about this one. Thanks!
#3 No aftermarket rollbar, just the stock hoops. Broomstick test?
#4 & #5: Yeah, with the stock seats and belts, I find myself really having to grip like a beast to keep myself seated. I would love a fixed bucket, and it's definitely on my list for when my budget allows. What do you think about a Modifry seat belt lock as a "better than nothing" stopgap in the meantime?
the broomstick test is basically where you sit in the car in your driving position with your helmet on and someone places a broom stick from the top of your roll bar to the windshield frame. If you can touch the broom stick you need to get yourself either a roll bar or a seat; in the event of a roll over you will get severely injured

personally; I don't like butchering my car unnecessarily so I would go seat, before roll bar since a quality roll bar requires permanent alternation and partial interior removal

Whereas getting a fixed bucket solves multiple problems.
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