Rear Sway bar
11-17-2009, 10:18 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Rear Sway bar
Can anyone recommend a good rear sway bar to match the Comptech adjustable front sway bar?
I'm setting up my car primarily for NASA Time Trials (TTC) for next year, but also (secondarily) SCCA STR. I have a CR "delete" model. I don't want to change springs/shocks as that would cost too many points for TT. But I do want to run a non-staggered setup. I have a comptech adjustable front sway bar to even out the non-staggered setup, but I think that even on it's lowest setting it will be a bit understeery (the CR has always seemed to have more understeer than my AP1). Since a rear sway bar is 0 points in TT (change in sway bars - front, rear, or both is +2 from my understanding) and STR legal, I was thinking running near-full stiff front and a beefy rear sway bar would give me 0 body roll and still allow me to play with the front bars adjustability (as opposed to being at the minimum setting and being stuck with understeer depending on the track).
Would one of the thicker S2000 rear sways (ap1) be enough? Anyone have a comptech rear for sale? Would adjusting alignment be enough?
What I plan to run for reference:
2008 Honda S2000 CR (TTC +14)
225 Hoosier R6 all around (+10 - 7= +3)
Comptech Front sway bar and ??? rear sway bar (+2)
Hondata flashpro (+0)
Camber: max front and rear (stock)
Caster: max
Toe: 0 front, small toe out rear...not sure yet
I'm setting up my car primarily for NASA Time Trials (TTC) for next year, but also (secondarily) SCCA STR. I have a CR "delete" model. I don't want to change springs/shocks as that would cost too many points for TT. But I do want to run a non-staggered setup. I have a comptech adjustable front sway bar to even out the non-staggered setup, but I think that even on it's lowest setting it will be a bit understeery (the CR has always seemed to have more understeer than my AP1). Since a rear sway bar is 0 points in TT (change in sway bars - front, rear, or both is +2 from my understanding) and STR legal, I was thinking running near-full stiff front and a beefy rear sway bar would give me 0 body roll and still allow me to play with the front bars adjustability (as opposed to being at the minimum setting and being stuck with understeer depending on the track).
Would one of the thicker S2000 rear sways (ap1) be enough? Anyone have a comptech rear for sale? Would adjusting alignment be enough?
What I plan to run for reference:
2008 Honda S2000 CR (TTC +14)
225 Hoosier R6 all around (+10 - 7= +3)
Comptech Front sway bar and ??? rear sway bar (+2)
Hondata flashpro (+0)
Camber: max front and rear (stock)
Caster: max
Toe: 0 front, small toe out rear...not sure yet
11-17-2009, 11:43 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Camber = -1.7* Rear, -2.2* Front (max the alignment guy to get so that it's even side to side)
Max caster (if forget the exact numbers)
0 toe all the way around. I know, I should probably have some toe out if I'm understeering - but will that be enough?
I found a good balance when I had the above alignment, OEM CR sways, 235/255 RA1's (on ap2 wheels) - so I think the Comptech front bar will be necessary if I go non-staggered
Max caster (if forget the exact numbers)
0 toe all the way around. I know, I should probably have some toe out if I'm understeering - but will that be enough?
I found a good balance when I had the above alignment, OEM CR sways, 235/255 RA1's (on ap2 wheels) - so I think the Comptech front bar will be necessary if I go non-staggered
11-17-2009, 11:57 AM
#5
You are getting understeer because your front bar isn't big enough and the car is rolling too much and overworking the the front tires because you don't have enough front camber.
Either add front camber and stick with your existing bars, or throw the comptech on.
The reason I say this is because everything else in your alignment points to oversteer. Don't dare max out your rear camber if you want the car to turn at all. Anything more than 2.5" will hurt you midcorner big time unless you compensate with more spring.
Either add front camber and stick with your existing bars, or throw the comptech on.
The reason I say this is because everything else in your alignment points to oversteer. Don't dare max out your rear camber if you want the car to turn at all. Anything more than 2.5" will hurt you midcorner big time unless you compensate with more spring.
11-18-2009, 06:58 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by angryfist,Nov 17 2009, 02:55 PM
A 225 non-stagger setup is not smart. You are just giving up rear grip.
11-18-2009, 07:04 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TheNick,Nov 17 2009, 02:57 PM
You are getting understeer because your front bar isn't big enough and the car is rolling too much and overworking the the front tires because you don't have enough front camber.
Either add front camber and stick with your existing bars, or throw the comptech on.
The reason I say this is because everything else in your alignment points to oversteer. Don't dare max out your rear camber if you want the car to turn at all. Anything more than 2.5" will hurt you midcorner big time unless you compensate with more spring.
Either add front camber and stick with your existing bars, or throw the comptech on.
The reason I say this is because everything else in your alignment points to oversteer. Don't dare max out your rear camber if you want the car to turn at all. Anything more than 2.5" will hurt you midcorner big time unless you compensate with more spring.
Also, I feel like I get more understeer when I have the comptech bar on. With the stock CR bars/springs/shocks and a non-stock stagger (235/255) I feel the car is neutral (or at least the right amount). That's why I thought a rear sway bar would help - to undo some of the understeer from the big front bar.
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11-18-2009, 07:06 AM
#8
Thread Starter
I think I'm going to try an MY00 or MY01 rear bar and play with the alignment (unless someone else has a better suggestion). AP1 bars are cheap and I think going from the least stiff rear bar (CR) to the most stiff bar (MY00/01) should make a notable difference.
11-18-2009, 07:35 AM
#9
Originally Posted by patinum,Nov 18 2009, 11:04 AM
Is this from an autox standpoint, track standpoint, or both? From what I've read, many of the track guys are on max camber. And my track wheels seem to wear mostly on the inside (38 psi hot RA1's) so I was guessing I would need more camber
Also, I feel like I get more understeer when I have the comptech bar on. With the stock CR bars/springs/shocks and a non-stock stagger (235/255) I feel the car is neutral (or at least the right amount). That's why I thought a rear sway bar would help - to undo some of the understeer from the big front bar.
Also, I feel like I get more understeer when I have the comptech bar on. With the stock CR bars/springs/shocks and a non-stock stagger (235/255) I feel the car is neutral (or at least the right amount). That's why I thought a rear sway bar would help - to undo some of the understeer from the big front bar.
11-21-2009, 04:09 AM
#10
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Pat, I think you should hold off on buying the rear bar, or at least buy it but don't install it until you've run your setup. Sway bars are tuning aids and aren't a blanket performance enhancement item. With running 225s square, I would be more worried about maximizing mid-turn grip then transition/turn-in balance, which is what you're doing by increasing the rear bar size. I believe with your setup (with your current CR bar), you'll need more than the softest setting on the front bar to keep the car manageable with the 225s. Increasing the rear bar dia so you can increase front bar stiffness isn't going to help like you think it is. It might work if you have lots of tire to handle the increased load on the outside tires, but not on 225s all around.
I say run your current setup, see how the car handles, and then see what part of the handling envelope needs to be improved (turn-in, exit, etc). Then correct with sway bar changes.
I say run your current setup, see how the car handles, and then see what part of the handling envelope needs to be improved (turn-in, exit, etc). Then correct with sway bar changes.