^Gotcha.

Like it was said earlier.. I don't think the square setup w/ a big front bar and wing compared to a square setup w/o either is a fair comparison. The car w/o the big front bar and wing will have a much higher tendency to oversteer, this is common sense.

A car that tends to push more (big front bar and wing) is going to be less dramatic than a car that's setup looser.

 

I'll take a stab at it, though I'm not sure what the hell I'm talking about. David seems to be driving the car correctly, he takes a later apex, his gear changes seem smooth and he's able to hold a steadier, smoother line through the turn. If I was at the track, I'd prefer to take davids approach.

The other driver seems to be all over the place. His downshifts need work, a lot of his downshift are off by a couple 100 rpms, kinda painful to listen to. On top of that he cant maintain smooth throttle in turns so he starts sawing the wheel. Perhaps from early apexing, or going in too fast, or the result of early apexing, not having enough track out. His arms look much more tense as well, I dont think stiff arms are the way to go, but i didnt time his lap. Could have been faster, but not by much. imo, he's plateaued, if he drives his car any faster he's going off the track.

but i havent won a national, or anything really. maybe a few races in forza. so honestly i have no clue

 

That first video reminds me of this one (found by dsddcd here on the forum but it's not him!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5_MM02YP8

 

guys, i posted nick1's videos not to say he drives better than the other guy. i posted it to show that a larger front bar will settle the car down. either upgrade your spring rate or sway bar that is all i was trying to get across.

 

Painting with a broad brush here but it seems like everyone who has posted on this page is on the same page... The car setup is mostly responsible for the drama. I believe bgoetz has a different opinion?

Anyway, good discussion and in my opinion, confirms the need to significantly increase front roll stiffness when going to a square setup.

 

Very broad brush, there is at least another who echoes my thoughts

All I can say is there needs to be prorities when looking at the setup of a car, the first being that it is being driven properly. I can make no comparison of the setup of Nick1s car and the OP, because Nick1 is driving entirely different.

 

In very general terms though increasing stiffness on one end results in more traction at the other, that should not come as a surprise to anyone. Also if I wanted to have any opinion at all regarding the cars setup, I would want to know the alignment specs. The thing is, I find it impossible to even think about setup when watching those videos. Not trying to be an a$$, it just is what it is!

Edit: I went back and watched the entire video, with a completely open mind (I only made it through the first couple spins and quit watching the first time). Admittedly, there are a couple corners later that looked to be more car and less driver, but then comes that right left section that about 50% of the video is composed of. I just can't get over how early he turns in for that corner and it is no surprise at all that most of his issues arise here.

If your looking for setup advise though, the square setup has been done in about every way, shape, and form, there should be more than enough information readily available to guide you towards a stable setup. IMO alignment is huge with any setup.

 

Did you just steal my very broad paint brush?

Lots of cars gain front traction when increasing front roll stiffness. Those generally have poor camber curves and McStruts but I thought the S2000's camber curve geometry wasn't as great as it should be for a double A arm? I see people running -3 to -4 degrees of camber up front for optimum front traction. That's Subaru, Mitsu, and BMW territory.

But yes, alignment is very important. I know the OPs car was setup with a healthy amount of toe-in front and rear which I have since dialed out while retaining max negative camber (-1.7*?) up front.

 

Before selling the car I removed the CR suspension and the hardrace front offset balljoints. I was running -2.8 to -3.0 front camber and zero front toe, with an 1/8" total rear toe in.
Also keep in mind the Spin2000 video has more than one driver behind the wheel and the car behaved better with fresh tires, most of the video slides were probably towards the end of tire life.