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STR Input requested

Old Oct 31, 2012 | 06:53 AM
  #1  
Vyndictive's Avatar
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Default STR Input requested

So, I'm hoping to get some input from the national level autocrossers here, mostly STR specific stuff. Looking for advice for the off season.

Feel free to comment on Car set-up, driver schools, advice, how you got through your plateau if you had one, etc...


Background:
Driver: I just finished my 3rd year of autocrossing, 2nd season in the s2k in STR. Last two seasons I've probably autocrossed every weekend all summer. With NORA in Cleveland, Steel Cities SCCA, NWOR, and some local corvette and porsche clubs.
Plenty of seat time to improve.

Car:
OTS Koni Yellows, Ground control top hats, Ground control sleeves (lowered) 500# fronts and 450# rear
Saner front bar, med stiff - stock rear bar
Hardrace front camber joints:
-2.5 degree camber front, -1.5 rear. 0 Toe front, 1/8 total toe in rear.
HP+ brake pads, steel lines, good fluid, etc.
Invidia header, 70mm high flow cat, HKS 75mm single.
K&N FIPK intake.
Tuning: VAFC2 - vtec cross at 4200rpm, tuned on the dyno, making 210 at the wheels, good midrange torque.
Wheels: 17x9 +63 TSW nurburgring with 255/40 star specs.

National level stuff:
DC pro solo: low pack in STS Miata
Toledo Pro: Low pack in STR (not DFL thanks to HART RTR car running in STR.
Nationals: Very Low STX in an underprepped E46 330 BMW.

So, locally I'm decent, with mostly top 10 finishes. But alot of it has to do with being familiar with the surface and course design. I'm not very adaptable. We also get 6-8 runs, and I improve steadily. For national level stuff, you gotta get it done right away and I struggle with that. suggestions there?

Questions:
Are there any driver sims, tools, video review processes that the top drivers are using that they feel okay sharing?
I plan to attend the Evo Schools early next year. Any other experiences you guys have felt is worthwhile?

Per the car: Its real unstable at high speed transitions (50mph+ entering a slalom, its nearly certain the car is going around)
What are some ways to get the rear end more planted?
Turn in feels good, but corner exit it wants to walk out all the time. I thought I liked the rear loose, but clearly its not that fast.
Braking is good. Steering feels quick, if not a little twitchy.

All general input is welcome...
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 07:28 AM
  #2  
ViperASR's Avatar
 
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The stock rear bar is probably part of the reason you have a very throttle loose car. Try pulling an endlink one day, I'd bet it will start to push on corner exit.
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 08:41 AM
  #3  
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i disagree with removing the rear bar. I would change the rear camber to -2.5º and lower the rear end, but if you didn't want to do the camber then lower the rear end until you start to develop corner exit push (on throttle).
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 09:26 AM
  #4  
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Front sway bar at full stiff could probably help as well.
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 04:55 PM
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More front spring or bar, less rear bar or spring, more rear camber, more rear toe-in. All of those will help a nervous rear end. Plus, if you're on a slippery surface the car will tend to be looser than on a grippy surface. My setup should give terminal understeer when compared to most of the popular setups here, but it's very neutral with a slight tendency to understeer at our local site. (Mine: 01, 750F/500R springs, 1.5" Ankeny front bar on full stiff, no rear bar)

The mental and personal performance aspects aren't frequently discussed here for some reason, but they account for a huge portion of your performance. Absolutely take any school you can, and read "The Inner Game of Tennis". A tennis book? YES! It's all about the mental processes behind any sport. I'm re-reading it for the 4th or 5th time, and I don't even play tennis! How many times have you had an 'off' day? Imagine if that was day 2 at Nats after a great day 1 - that would suck if you didn't have a plan in place to work around it!

My suggestion for spending priorities if you want to improve your placings: (assuming your car is in good working order)
1. Tires
2. Schools (I debated the order of these first two, maybe schools are first)
3. Travel to other events to upset your regular rhythm
4. Car parts

For your multi-run local events, try taking only the first 3 runs. Or purposefully hit at least one cone on the 4th and later runs so that they're not your best. That sting you feel as you don't do as well may be the kick in the butt to optimize your course walks and those first 3 runs. You're likely not as concerned with course walks as you are at Nats, so you likely don't develop the course reading skills you need once you only have 3 runs to get it done. (I'm still envious, that's probably fun to do that many runs!)

JeffJ and I feel that the mental aspects and approaches are so important that we spend a significant amount of our time talking about them in our local school series. Developing a plan, executing it, and observing your performance with a critical (but impartial) eye for every run is the only way to win reliably. Everyone has triggers that either make them shine or makes them feel like a dumb little kid. Figure out what your triggers are so you're in charge.

The tips that most drivers need to go from mediocre to great:

1. Everyone makes mistakes. Suck it up and make the best of where you are and get to the end of that run like it never happened. I want to scream when I have a student give up part way through a run because of some mistake. You've got 3 chances; everyone else is making mistakes too, but those that recover quickest take home the big trophies.

2. Look ahead more (see where the car is going to be in a couple of elements, compare that to your plan and correct as necessary)

3. Be on line (sacrifice everything immediately to get back on line as quickly as possible, carrying an error forwards can hurt for the next 3 or 4 gates/elements)

4. Make corrections as early as possible so they're smaller (a little throttle lift near the apex is exponentially better than a huge lift once you've figured out you're about to run over the cones on the corner exit)

5. Have fun. We're spending our hard-earned money to dance cars around plastic cones for plastic trophies that no one cares about. You do this because it's stupidly ridiculous fun, keep it fun. (Winning big trophies is fun too! )
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 05:20 PM
  #6  
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I'm no national hot shoe but for starters, if I was you and didn't want to spend more money on shocks or sways, I'd run at least -2.5 camber rear. That would give you a little less of a nervous tail happy rear. I run -2.6 and have pretty even wear. I was at a test and tune day and camber in the -2.8 range seem to be good for even temps when doing a friction circle and taking temps with a real pyrometer. YMMV though.

I hear that Koni combo isn't that great from multiple people in my region. If you were going to spend some money on upgraded sways, you might want to look into shocks first.

When I experienced a very loose rear end at high speed transitions it was mainly due to my rear shocks running on the bump stops. I was also too low for my shocks as well. Make sure you are not hitting bump stops or fully compressing your rear springs.
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Old Oct 31, 2012 | 05:22 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by captain_pants
More front spring or bar, less rear bar or spring, more rear camber, more rear toe-in. All of those will help a nervous rear end. Plus, if you're on a slippery surface the car will tend to be looser than on a grippy surface. My setup should give terminal understeer when compared to most of the popular setups here, but it's very neutral with a slight tendency to understeer at our local site. (Mine: 01, 750F/500R springs, 1.5" Ankeny front bar on full stiff, no rear bar)

The mental and personal performance aspects aren't frequently discussed here for some reason, but they account for a huge portion of your performance. Absolutely take any school you can, and read "The Inner Game of Tennis". A tennis book? YES! It's all about the mental processes behind any sport. I'm re-reading it for the 4th or 5th time, and I don't even play tennis! How many times have you had an 'off' day? Imagine if that was day 2 at Nats after a great day 1 - that would suck if you didn't have a plan in place to work around it!

My suggestion for spending priorities if you want to improve your placings: (assuming your car is in good working order)
1. Tires
2. Schools (I debated the order of these first two, maybe schools are first)
3. Travel to other events to upset your regular rhythm
4. Car parts

For your multi-run local events, try taking only the first 3 runs. Or purposefully hit at least one cone on the 4th and later runs so that they're not your best. That sting you feel as you don't do as well may be the kick in the butt to optimize your course walks and those first 3 runs. You're likely not as concerned with course walks as you are at Nats, so you likely don't develop the course reading skills you need once you only have 3 runs to get it done. (I'm still envious, that's probably fun to do that many runs!)

JeffJ and I feel that the mental aspects and approaches are so important that we spend a significant amount of our time talking about them in our local school series. Developing a plan, executing it, and observing your performance with a critical (but impartial) eye for every run is the only way to win reliably. Everyone has triggers that either make them shine or makes them feel like a dumb little kid. Figure out what your triggers are so you're in charge.

The tips that most drivers need to go from mediocre to great:

1. Everyone makes mistakes. Suck it up and make the best of where you are and get to the end of that run like it never happened. I want to scream when I have a student give up part way through a run because of some mistake. You've got 3 chances; everyone else is making mistakes too, but those that recover quickest take home the big trophies.

2. Look ahead more (see where the car is going to be in a couple of elements, compare that to your plan and correct as necessary)

3. Be on line (sacrifice everything immediately to get back on line as quickly as possible, carrying an error forwards can hurt for the next 3 or 4 gates/elements)

4. Make corrections as early as possible so they're smaller (a little throttle lift near the apex is exponentially better than a huge lift once you've figured out you're about to run over the cones on the corner exit)

5. Have fun. We're spending our hard-earned money to dance cars around plastic cones for plastic trophies that no one cares about. You do this because it's stupidly ridiculous fun, keep it fun. (Winning big trophies is fun too! )
Best post I've read in a long time.
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Old Nov 1, 2012 | 10:27 AM
  #8  
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Thank you everyone for the input, both technical and mental.

If you talk to most autocrossers, they're either engineers or in IT. Meaning they have a pretty good technical understanding of their cars. My background is in psychology. So I do try and focus on being mentally prepared and following my routine.

Tires: I've always legged out a single season on either the RS3s (first year) and back to Star Specs this year. I am budgeting two sets for next year. Hoping the Z2 is worthwhile.

Thank you for the set-up and alignment questions. I don't want to throw too much money / parts at the car until I can drive it as fast as other good drivers that jump in my car and beat me by 2-3 seconds. But, I will change the set-up. The rear end was super unstable at high speed on Toledo's concrete, so I am taking that to mean its the car.
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Old Nov 1, 2012 | 12:46 PM
  #9  
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Just to point out for reference.. . I've noticed over time/life of tires and with temperature of surfaces dropping, the rear of my car has gotten more loose. You definitely end up making adjustments for tires and temps, even a fairly new set. I had to soften my rear bar one notch and drop the compression to get the rear to grip a little more and it helped. I probably needed to drop another notch at the last event but I thought I could make something work with shock adjustments.

RS3s with I'd say around to 150 runs in one calendar year and ~1,500 street miles. I didn't bag the tires at first but have over the last 2 months. If you want to make a set of tires last a year, definitely bag them and also make sure they are all from the same batch so their isn't any variables to fight there.
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Old Nov 1, 2012 | 06:30 PM
  #10  
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Well, my car is an oddball set up compared to most, so I'm not going to say 'you need this' or 'you need that'. However there are many things that apply to being a better driver regardless of car or setup. Captain_Pants laid them out nicely at the end of his post, but i'll add a few that have helped me along the way.

Seat time, seat time, seat time! nothing is more valuable than getting comfortable in your race car. The more you're in it, the more you will be in tune to how it reacts in certain conditions, how it reacts to your inputs, and where the limits are. The more you know the car, the harder you will be able to push it.

Attend as many autocrosses as you can. travel to different regions to experience different course designs, surfaces and competitors. Also go to any drivers schools that your local region(s) offer. Sometimes you can get an entire seasons worth of seat time at a driving school. Not to mention the instructors that will be riding with you and sometimes driving your car to show you techniques.

Ride with some of your competitors. ( I know its against the rules to ride with someone, but just ask your fellow competitors. Most of them wont give a crap). You'll get to see different driving lines and different driving styles. Sometimes you'll see a better way through an element that you hadn't figured out yet. And it doesn't have to be other s2000s. You can learn alot from ride alongs in just about any car out there.

And of course, as said before. Have fun! thats what this sport is all about! winning is just an added bonus
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