Some background: I’m an intermediate skill HPDE track day participant (NASA DE3) currently driving a 06 GPW deliberating when’s the right timing for sway bar upgrades. I’m humble enough to know that getting regular seat time makes the largest difference in improving my skills and times. Having said that I’ve graduated the stock car to a few subtle chassis and suspension upgrades all in anticipation of making my 06 more capable as I achieve higher speeds and skill around the track. I’m looking for some honest opinions in whether I should get the Karcept sway bars or are they just overkill for my HPDE events vs TT/time attack events. I haven’t decided yet where HPDE will lead me but very interested in becoming more competitive. My current setup includes non-staggered OEM wheels with summer performance tires, race pads, 12k/10k coilovers, stock sway bars, adjustable end links, front bump steer kit, a rear adjustable toe arm, and all around aggressive track alignment with hopes of getting a corner balance soon. I also have some lighter forged wheels and 200 tread wear tires coming soon. The car doesn’t have any aero other than a front lip. The plans are to keep running events while achieving better front to rear balance in the car on track. Future plans in next 12 months will evolve the car to full track duty with aero, seats, BBK, roll bar, etc. If I get the Karcept bars now will it be overkill especially given the huge increase in rates in the lowest settings compared to stock? Constructive thoughts from experienced track addicts are welcome. Thank you in advance.

 

The biggest selling point of them, IMO, is not the absolute addition of roll stiffness but the tuning that they allow. The adjustment range of the front bar is huge and dramatically changes the behavior of the car from stiffest setting to softest. I have not yet installed and used my rear bar. My experience is limited to mostly autocross, so I'm not going to comment on overall setup. In the grand scheme of things, they allow you another tuning opportunity to change the relative roll stiffness front-to-rear. They are a very simple adjustment that can be done laying on the ground in a few seconds. You do not currently have that opportunity with your setup.

 

the other advantage of the karcepts front set up is being able to change the center section

 

Stiffer suspension, be it springs or arb, should match the tires. Tires that generate a lot more grip will have the car wallowing around more in transitions, and the stiffer suspension will allow reining that in and bringing back a measure of control.

Right now you just have summer tires, which is pretty much how it came stock, except you're running a square setup, more meat up front. So your much stiffer than stock coilovers are more than a match for a mild tire upgrade.

But once your planned upgrade to race tires is completed, a swaybar upgrade would be more appropriate.

Keep in mind stiffer suspension equals less traction, but more control. This is especially true for stiffer arb, which takes away some of the independence of independent suspension. So stiffer is not automatically better, unless you need more control, and can afford to lose some traction as a trade-off.

 

I use the Ankeny bar which is awesome. Uses blades for the arms. Not sure if he still does multiple sizes but I definitely like the arm style better. And lighter.

Both are good bars and you will a benefit of a stiffer bar in transitions. Don’t go too big or too stiff or you’ll turn that oversteer into an understeer nightmare

 

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advise. I decided to purchase the bars and install them in tandem with my grippy tires. I’ve ran RE11As and AD08s a few years back on my CR which had stiffer OEM sway bars rates on Swift springs. But I know setting the Karcept bars will be key in relation to my coil over settings on track. I will just have to test things out. I was planning on setting the front bar at the softest setting and the rear bar in the middle setting.

 

Prepare yourself to be amazed at the difference that the sway bars will make, even with all the other mods you have on the car. It will increase the overall roll stiffness and body control of the car with the front bar, and the rear bar gives the ability to control how the car puts power down.

Consider starting on the middle settings for each bar, or send Brian @ Karcepts an email describing your mods and use and he'll point you in the right starting direction. It's usually wise to start a setup from the middle unless you have data/feedback/advice already, that way you know you can adjust in either direction and you won't chase the wrong thing when diagnosing the setup

 

The ease of adjustability (aka "one hand adjustments") on the Karcepts is a pretty huge advantage as well. I have an old Moddiction bar on the front of mine, but we run a Karcepts set on the ND that I codrive and the way it adjusts makes it a lot quicker and easier vs a regular sway bar. It seemed like less of a deal until I actually tried the Karcepts. Makes for faster/easier changes at the track or event and thus means you are more likely to try more settings during an event.

I like keeping the rear bar softer (I still run a stock rear bar) to allow the car to put power down in the corners, and do all the adjustment with the front bar. Too much rear bar and you are creating even more lift of the inside tire under corner loads which means less ability to put power down out of a corner. So only stiffening the front and keeping the rear close to stock or even softer than stock is usually desirable.

 

Got .250 front and the rear bars. Installed a few days ago. Next track day is this weekend so I will have a chance to see how the car handles. Set to softest setting upfront and middle in rear.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Helpful.

 

the karcepts bar is the prettiest thing I have on my car...that no one but me ever sees.
darcy