Thinking of buying an S2000--Which year?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Salt Lake City, UT
Thinking of buying an S2000--Which year?
Hi all,
I'm new to S2Ki and this is my first post. I am considering buying an S2000 (or maybe an RX-8) very soon and wanted advice on which model year to buy. I have done some research on the year-to-year changes, but I would like advice from people who have actual track experience on whether those changes were worthwhile.
As far as AP1 and AP2, I really like the high-strung 9000-RPM engine of the AP1 (despite it having less power and taller gears than the F22C) and the quicker steering ratio, but I am concerned about the rear suspension geometry of the AP1. In particular the AP1's have been criticized as being unpredictable at the limit, in part because of its bump-steer characteristics. Some questions:
1) I've heard of anti-bump-steer kits. Are they an effective solution?
2) Some people actually like this characteristic. Why?
3) Is the VSA (MY2006+) a worthwhile upgrade, and worth the DBW change?
4) Does brake assist (MY2006+) intrude during your track days?
Note: I have a fair amount of racing/track experience, but this will be my first RWD car (maybe VSA could be worthwhile at first?). Also note that I will very likely get the following mods for the S2000: coilovers, adjustable sway bars, adjustable endlinks, lightweight wheels, R-compound tires, racing pads and fluids (so differences in spring rates, sway bar thickness, tire sizes, etc. are fairly pointless). I know these are very specific questions, but a huge thank you in advance for your help!
VR
I'm new to S2Ki and this is my first post. I am considering buying an S2000 (or maybe an RX-8) very soon and wanted advice on which model year to buy. I have done some research on the year-to-year changes, but I would like advice from people who have actual track experience on whether those changes were worthwhile.
As far as AP1 and AP2, I really like the high-strung 9000-RPM engine of the AP1 (despite it having less power and taller gears than the F22C) and the quicker steering ratio, but I am concerned about the rear suspension geometry of the AP1. In particular the AP1's have been criticized as being unpredictable at the limit, in part because of its bump-steer characteristics. Some questions:
1) I've heard of anti-bump-steer kits. Are they an effective solution?
2) Some people actually like this characteristic. Why?
3) Is the VSA (MY2006+) a worthwhile upgrade, and worth the DBW change?
4) Does brake assist (MY2006+) intrude during your track days?
Note: I have a fair amount of racing/track experience, but this will be my first RWD car (maybe VSA could be worthwhile at first?). Also note that I will very likely get the following mods for the S2000: coilovers, adjustable sway bars, adjustable endlinks, lightweight wheels, R-compound tires, racing pads and fluids (so differences in spring rates, sway bar thickness, tire sizes, etc. are fairly pointless). I know these are very specific questions, but a huge thank you in advance for your help!
VR
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 177
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From: Houston, TX
If you're planning all those mods, and it's a track only, or track mostly car, I would buy the oldest, cheapest one you can find (that's in acceptable condition). Save your money for seat time.
Upgrading of either the AP1 or AP2 suspension should get you the ability to tune either chassis to your liking, leaving the torque curve and gearing as the main difference.
They are both good cars.
Just remember, hold out for the color that you want. That's the most important thing.
Upgrading of either the AP1 or AP2 suspension should get you the ability to tune either chassis to your liking, leaving the torque curve and gearing as the main difference.
They are both good cars.
Just remember, hold out for the color that you want. That's the most important thing.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,840
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From: Salt Lake City, UT
Originally Posted by Zachreligious,Apr 22 2008, 08:13 AM
Just remember, hold out for the color that you want. That's the most important thing.
Thanks!
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 410
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From: Pasadena
I've driven just about all model year S2's on the track.
I like the AP1 and AP2 for all the reasons you listed.
I can tell you that I'm fastest around the track in an 04 or 05 S2.
The 04/05 models still had the cable throttle, and no VSA. You'll never use the VSA on the track. It's more a hindrance than any kind of help unless you're a first time track guy.
That's my .02 for all it's worth....
Good luck. Any S2 is a great track car.
I like the AP1 and AP2 for all the reasons you listed.
I can tell you that I'm fastest around the track in an 04 or 05 S2.
The 04/05 models still had the cable throttle, and no VSA. You'll never use the VSA on the track. It's more a hindrance than any kind of help unless you're a first time track guy.
That's my .02 for all it's worth....
Good luck. Any S2 is a great track car.
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From: St. Louis
If you buy an AP1 keep in mind the MY99-01 Have a stiffer rear spring rate than front. From MY02 and up they have reversed that to a harder front rate. This may have contributed to the early models tendency to be eager to rotate. I myself am done with the stock suspension and am saving for a coil-over set up or an adj shock setup at the least to be able to dial in some understeer for hihgspeed corners and be able to add throttle exiting a corner more liberaly.
The stock suspension with a good tire is fun for a lttile bit dpending on how you can adapt to the handling experience that the engineers had in mind, but at some point you will notice the body roll and power-on oversteer out of corners. At least this has been my inpression.
I know nothing about BSK's but as far as the AP2 goes I read that Honda changed the suspension mounting points for a more "stable" handling experience. I've never had a go in one on a track but have driven one on the street and it seemed a little watered down and a bit less communicative, but this was on the street.
Buying the oldest cheapest one makes sense to me, but then again I dont have alot of money to sink into a car. If you go this route - get the valves and retainers inspected before you purchase and make sure its accident free if you can. There are alot of bent S2000's out there.
The stock suspension with a good tire is fun for a lttile bit dpending on how you can adapt to the handling experience that the engineers had in mind, but at some point you will notice the body roll and power-on oversteer out of corners. At least this has been my inpression.
I know nothing about BSK's but as far as the AP2 goes I read that Honda changed the suspension mounting points for a more "stable" handling experience. I've never had a go in one on a track but have driven one on the street and it seemed a little watered down and a bit less communicative, but this was on the street.
Buying the oldest cheapest one makes sense to me, but then again I dont have alot of money to sink into a car. If you go this route - get the valves and retainers inspected before you purchase and make sure its accident free if you can. There are alot of bent S2000's out there.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,840
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From: Salt Lake City, UT
Hi all,
Just wanted to say thanks for all your advice. I took your advice (especially concerning the color bit), and ended up purchasing a 2003 GPW S2000 with 18,200 miles on it. I am very impressed with the car so far, and after driving it around, I think I want to keep it stock for a while (maybe do some autocrosses as AS) and go to track days through SpeedVentures or Redline Events.
I'd also like some more advice: the only maintenance the previous owner had done with the car was oil changes every 6,000 miles or so. I would like to swap out the fluids, since they're all five years old. Any recommendations on which products are track worthy? Any recommendations on a shop that can do these things for me?
What I've done so far...
Oil Change - Mobil1 10/30
Oil Filter - HAMP Synergy
What I want to do...
Brake fluid - Motul RBF600
Air filter - K&N Replacement, Stock Honda, or...?
Cabin filter - Stock Honda
Differential Fluid - Recommendations?
Transmission Fluid - Honda MTF or GM Synchromesh?
Radiator Fluid - 50/50 Coolant/Water - Recommendations?
Will the stock Honda pads (with plenty of life left in them) endure some lapping days at Streets of Willow or California Speedway Interior Course (with OE S02 street tires and RBF600 fluid)? Or should I not risk it and upgrade to better pads like Porterfield R4S, Hawk HPS, etc? Any recommendations here?
Thanks in advance!
Just wanted to say thanks for all your advice. I took your advice (especially concerning the color bit), and ended up purchasing a 2003 GPW S2000 with 18,200 miles on it. I am very impressed with the car so far, and after driving it around, I think I want to keep it stock for a while (maybe do some autocrosses as AS) and go to track days through SpeedVentures or Redline Events.
I'd also like some more advice: the only maintenance the previous owner had done with the car was oil changes every 6,000 miles or so. I would like to swap out the fluids, since they're all five years old. Any recommendations on which products are track worthy? Any recommendations on a shop that can do these things for me?
What I've done so far...
Oil Change - Mobil1 10/30
Oil Filter - HAMP Synergy
What I want to do...
Brake fluid - Motul RBF600
Air filter - K&N Replacement, Stock Honda, or...?
Cabin filter - Stock Honda
Differential Fluid - Recommendations?
Transmission Fluid - Honda MTF or GM Synchromesh?
Radiator Fluid - 50/50 Coolant/Water - Recommendations?
Will the stock Honda pads (with plenty of life left in them) endure some lapping days at Streets of Willow or California Speedway Interior Course (with OE S02 street tires and RBF600 fluid)? Or should I not risk it and upgrade to better pads like Porterfield R4S, Hawk HPS, etc? Any recommendations here?
Thanks in advance!