Track Only Alignment
 

Looks like most guys run -3.5F/-3R camber if they can, my question is how much is too much front camber?
With the buddy club ball joints I can run any camber I want, is -4F/-3R too much? anyone tried it?
I almost never street drive the car and I have separate wheels with cheap tires so street wear isn't a concern at all.

My current thoughts
Front
-3.5 camber
7 caster (max out)
0 toe

Rear
-3.0 camber (max out adjusters)
0.25 inch total toe-in.

Current Setup:

Buddy Club P1 Camber/Roll center ball joints
T1R rear toe arms
GTC-300
KW V3
Ankeny Racing Blade Front Sway Bar
AP1 27.2 rear sway bar (will probably change or remove)
All poly bushings
WASP Splitter
17x9 +62 255 square RS3

Too much front camber is when you decrease camber and add grip. Too little front camber is when you add camber and add grip.

Camber is relative to the tires you have, the ride height you are running, the bars, springs, nearly everything. You are in the ballpark in the ~3 range, but nobody but you can determine if you are in the right spot.

A traditional way to determine camber is to use a tire pyrometer immediately after coming off the track after several hot laps. Typically camber and tire pressure would be adjusted so that they were even across the tire.

A more modern way is to record the tire temperatures across the tread on the track and adjust the camber and pressure so they are even in the corners.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWNNl__Rbmc[/media]

thanks guys, I'll start with -3.5/-3, take measurements and go from there.

Any updates?

Lots of front end grip on on track, pretty much zero understeer, at 36psi I was using all the treadwidth.

Lots of front end grip on on track, pretty much zero understeer, at 36psi I was using all the treadwidth.
[/quote]

What tires are you running?

Also
-OEM Hardtop

Lots of front end grip on on track, pretty much zero understeer, at 36psi I was using all the treadwidth.[/quote]What tires are you running?
[/quote]

255/40ZR-17 HANKOOK VENTUS R-S3 V2

One thing people don't talk about often enough is that excessive camber reduces braking and acceleration potential. IMO, the ideal suspension would keep the wheels upright on the straights and give "just the right amount" dynamically in turns. Since we're working with an OEM suspension system and most of the time don't have the freedom within the rules to do significant geometry changes, we're generally stuck making compromises. Ultimately your optimum camber will be whatever gives you the best lap times.

As these pictures from the Hungary F1 show, even the most sophisticated race cars run lots of static negative camber. Even the OEM rear setting is -1.5° negative. Generally, traction corning has a bigger impact on lap times than braking or accelerating in a straight line. Even there, corning traction exiting a turn can be converted to forward traction in the turn by shifting more of the weight transfer to the outside front tire which puts more weight on the inside rear tire.

http://www.grandprix247.com/wp-conte...00y0_O6fKx.jpg

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-conten...-1-886x591.jpg

Any front aero? That seems like a huge wing to not have understeer with no front aero to match.

WASP splitter

Sorry I missed it. Good to see the WASP was enough to balance out the wing.

I think it depends on your tires and balance you want.

I am running dunlup star spec 2 and i had 3.0 front and 3.0 back. the back had some over steer mid exit. previously i had 2.8 all around and it was very neutral. So now its time to try 3.0 front and 2.8 back.

I think its about you dialing it in to the way you drive and like everyone else says, its about your tire choice

Is that you?... that's pretty neat if it is.

Mind sharing your alignment settings in the video?

Thank You.

I started with this earlier this year and corded the outside fronts on my Maxxis RC-1's (wasn't paying attention as I got faster - still got 31 heat cycles out of them before this).

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8756/1...e92d8ca6_b.jpg

My current alignment and now on Hoosier R7's. I've only done one day on them and didn't take an temperature samples.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5691/2...fbc55c6e_b.jpg

Details on my setup can be found here: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/112...#entry23592378

For the most part, I've been following what a good friend of mine has recommended I do for alignments. He's a phenomal driver and 2x NASA TT3 Nationals champ and 2x SCCA AutoX champ (SM and BSP). He puts me in a good place to start with and I can feel out the car from there.

I don't seem anything wrong with that. I still prefer zero toe up front, but I like a one degree split front to rear. Hoosier says their A7/R7 doesn't like more than -3 degrees though.

I don't see anything saying it doesn't like more, but that it requires "about".

As far as toe up front. After getting the car settled/dialed in, my buddy recommended to go with the toe out up front to keep up turn entry speed. Both this and the alignment seemed to do well this past weekend.

For those of you that are running -3.0+ camber in the front, do you have that "numb" feeling in the steering?

I only have -2.25 up front and the feeling of the steering not wanting to re-align itself back to "straight", in addition to the "numb" feeling, gives me lack of confidence, not allowing me to drive the car as aggressively as before.

Thanks.

The feedback sensed can also be dependent on the tires used. My steering does not feel numb even with -3.0. What is your caster set at? A high caster will induce the return to center behavior in the steering wheel.

Fokker... thank you for your attention... sorry it's taken me this long to get back to you... :hidebc:

I do have a different setup than my last and here are the previous and current setups:

Previous Setup:

Wheels: Enkei RPF1 (17x8 +45 F; 17x9 +45 R)
Tires: Dunlop Direzzas Z1 Star Spec (235/45/17 F; 255/40/17 R)
Alignment:

• Front Camber: -1.5
• Front Caster: 6.2 (I asked to max out)
• Front Toe: 0.0
• Rear Camber: -2.25
• Rear Toe: 0.24" Total (IN)

Current Setup:

Wheels: Enkei RPF1 (17x9 +45 F; 17x9 +45 R)
Tires: Dunlop Direzzas Z2 (245/40/17 F; 255/40/17 R)
Alignment:

• Front Camber: -2.25
• Front Caster: 6.8 (I asked to max out)
• Front Toe: 0.0
• Rear Camber: -2.5
• Rear Toe: 0.25" Total (IN)

Difference:

Wider Front Wheel: 8" to 9"
Wider Front Tire: 235/45 to 245/40
Front Camber: -1.5 to -2.25
Front Caster: 6.2 to 6.8 (Asked to max out on both occasions. Same as you thought, figured more caster would help with return to straight but didn't to my surprise.)
Rear Camber: -2.25 to -2.5

Hope this is enough info.

Thank You.